The healing home: how to design your house as a sanctuary (transcript)

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Episode Transcript:

Lian (00:00)

Could the way we arrange our house, change the way we feel, think and even heal. Hello, my beautiful old souls and a huge warm welcome back. In this show, I'm joined by Paula Robinson. As an intuitive interior designer, Paula understands the profound effect that the spaces where we live and work have on our health, happiness and success in life. Often called the space whisperer.

She helps people to create living and working environments that transform their lives on all levels. In this episode, Paula and I explore how our homes shape our bodies, minds and lives. The primal ways space soothes or unsettles us and the work of making a dwelling that heals.

Together we trace the path from head to heart, from trend to truth, from copybook rules to the felt sense of sanctuary.

We journey through refuge and prospect, the simple power of moving a chair and why bedrooms and workspaces ask for special care.

shares how intuitive design emerges, how objects carry the craft and energy of their makers and how plants, lights and air restore a room's vitality. At the heart of this conversation is a gentle invitation to listen to what our homes are already telling us.

To let our instincts set the first mark and then allow practicality to refine it.

Beauty follows when a space begins to mirror the soul that lives there. ⁓ and this conversation is one that really couldn't be dearer to my own heart. This was delicious.

And so before we jump into all of that good stuff,

If you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path in this crazy modern world and would benefit from guidance, kinship and support, then come join our Academy of the Soul, UNIO. You can find out more and join us by hopping over to bemythical.com slash UNIO or click the link in the description. And now back to this week's episode, let's dive in.

Lian (02:12)

Hello, Paula. Welcome to the show.

Paula Robinson (02:16)

Thank you so much, very excited to be here.

Lian (02:19)

Oh my gosh, as I was saying to you, as we were talking before hitting record, it was one of those conversations like, I think we need to stop and start recording because we're just going to have the whole episode before we've even begun recording. But yes, this as I've shared with you, the kinds of things we're talking about are just such natural loves for me, things that I think about all day long.

Paula Robinson (02:27)

I know, yes.

Bye.

Hmm.

Lian (02:49)

And so having the opportunity to talk to someone else that shares those passions is beyond delightful to me. So I can't wait. So I am really intrigued. I've intentionally not asked you this. Where did it all begin? Where did your myth begin? And if there is anything that you can sort of see looking backwards, look, it began in childhood, begin there. Cause I always find that so fascinating.

Paula Robinson (03:04)

Yes.

Mm.

Yeah. Okay.

Well, I would say it was awareness of space at a very, very young age. was, I think I was 18 months old and I was having a nap in my room, which was, it was enormous. And my mother had divided it with a bookcase, but the space felt frightening to me. It was, it was too, too big.

And that's an impression that has stayed with me throughout my life. So whenever I'm doing, working with people with their nurseries, I'm always about, look at it from the baby's point of view, the child's point of view, know, or animals is get down on the ground and look at the space from their sides. ⁓ So I would say that was the very first thing that struck me and I've carried that throughout.

Lian (03:45)

Mmm.

you

Paula Robinson (04:11)

my life, the awareness of space. I was very lucky that my mother was incredibly creative. Any home we lived in, and we lived all over the world, lucky, she just could pull a home together. So I suppose I, you know, learnt from her. And she had an amazing affinity with plants. And

The house was always full of plants and she talked to her plants and so on. And she was always moving the furniture. So, ⁓ you know, I'd come home from school and the whole place would be rearranged and it was wonderful. And again, that was that awareness of space that if you change the arrangement of furniture,

Lian (04:53)

Mmm

Paula Robinson (05:00)

it's like having a new home. You know, it's not new things, but it's a whole different feeling.

Lian (05:03)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (05:07)

and it's quite exciting. So there was that.

And I... Yes.

Lian (05:13)

I must just share something.

I won't tell you the rest of the story, but you just reminded me of something that past partners and my husband now always have this kind of slight amusement, slight like, is this necessary? Whenever I go and stay anywhere on holiday, the first thing I do is have to rearrange the furniture.

Paula Robinson (05:26)

and

Yes.

and

do it in hotel rooms! Yes, me too.

Lian (05:41)

I can't be here every weekend

with that table there it just feels wrong and yeah it's anywhere I go and if I'm going to a friend's house I managed to refrain from doing that it's only yes but yes I completely understand what you mean there but carry on carry on

Paula Robinson (05:46)

Yes, absolutely.

Sitting on your hands, yes.

I had no intention of becoming a designer.

I loved working with people and I wanted to be a psychologist. I wanted to be a child psychologist. And partway through my BSc, I realised that it didn't rather as you had said earlier,

about interior design, your experience with interior design when you wanted to go down that road and then the all the drawings and that the, you know, the sort of must do side of it, ⁓ puts you off. And I'll speak more to that later. But ⁓ the statistics, I was just like, wait a minute, one year you you're proving one theory, two years later, it's another theory. And

That doesn't mean just because you can statistically prove something does not mean that it is that's truth. So I had a problem with that. And I think I fell into interior design. ⁓ I opened a children's shop on the King's Road years ago and everything was handmade in Britain. ⁓ And I didn't have a lot of money.

Lian (07:08)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (07:29)

for renovations and so on and had been a travel agents before. And there was this one unit that they had had all their leaflets in that couldn't be removed from the wall without pulling the entire wall down. And I couldn't afford a plasterer. So I sat there and stared at this thing and thought, what do I do with it? And then I got this vision of turn it into Doll's house bookshelves with, because we could cut.

the very top. basically we kept the majority of it, cut the very top, gave it the shape of the house where the walls were messed up. We did clouds and, and, know, it was, so it all looked deliberate and people loved it so much. got commissions to do it, to build them.

Lian (08:18)

Mmm.

Wow, if you have a photo

of that I would love to see it.

Paula Robinson (08:28)

Oh, yes,

yes, yes, I it was just, it was one of those, what do you do with, with a problem? How do you transform a problem? And it was so much fun. It was like being a kid. And I think, but also when I was a kid,

For instance, I loved fireplaces. We lived in New York in an apartment. We didn't have a fireplace. So I was determined to build a fireplace with my long suffering mother we got brick contact paper, a box. And so I created this whole fireplace. I was very disappointed when I could have actually light a fire in it.

Lian (09:15)

you would have loved my last house. We had seven fireplaces, not all working. Some work, some we didn't use, but seven. Your dream house right there.

Paula Robinson (09:25)

Wow, wow. yes, absolutely, absolutely.

So I think the, I rather fell into design ⁓ from the shop and working with people. I didn't actually realise I was an intuitive designer until I'd been working for years in traditional design. I'd done show flats, I'd done...

Lian (09:40)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (09:53)

you know, all sorts of commercial. And I was working for a client in New York. ⁓ and she was the one who spotted it because she was divorcing and she had two apartments and one she was giving to her ex and one she was keeping for herself. And we met at a dinner party. She'd gone through three different designers. She was not happy. She'd sold all the their antiques and furniture and so on. And she said, will you come and look at these two spaces? And I was actually leaving the next day for London, but I did go, I looked at hers and I just sat and she, she describes it as I sat there in silence for 15 minutes. And then I described this vision that she was just, my God, that's exactly what I want. And then she took me upstairs to meet her.

Lian (10:49)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (10:52)

soon to be ex-husband who was very gruff, very unhappy. He barely said hello to me. And I spent about 10 minutes in the apartment and then I was doing the buying for them in the markets in Paris, which you would love if you've ever been to Clignancourt. It's heaven, it's like a massive toy shop.

And she came over from New York before everything was shipped. She loved everything for her place. And, but she was unsure about his, she's like, but is it Evan? And it was back in the days of Polaroids. And she took Polaroids of all of these things

Lian (11:33)

Mm-hmm.

Paula Robinson (11:37)

and didn't dare show him when she went back, but she decided to ship everything anyway. And for some reason he came sofa shopping with us in New York at Dialogica and he was bored senseless and sitting in a corner and I had chosen some stools and some very bright fabrics for his apartment and Monique said, no, I'm sorry Paula, you've gone too far. No, no. And from the other side of the showroom, he yells up, shut up Monique, I love it. And she was absolutely floored. And apparently that evening she showed him all the Polaroids and he loved everything. And there were all sorts of things like there was a wine cooler that I got as a 1920s wine cooler that I'd seen that I was like, that's Evan. I didn't know the man from a bar of soap for a side table. And I didn't know he was a wine connoisseur, loved his wines.

Lian (12:35)

Mmm.

wow.

Paula Robinson (12:46)

And there were all these things. And then the next day she took me out to lunch and she said, do you, do you understand how you work? I, know, like I done a window seat, created a window seat for her. said, that's what I always wanted as a child. So it was just as, um, she said, you're in, you're working totally intuitively because everything you picked for Evan, he loves and is perfect. And he still has, he's, he's moving the stuff to Greece.

Lian (13:00)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (13:15)

to his latest place, you he's kept it. over the years, so I think that's where I found out, ⁓ I'm not doing it the traditional interior design way.

Lian (13:20)

Mmm.

I love that. I got chills just then. There's something so magical in the way that sometimes it can be our clients that reflect back to us who we really are and how we work. There's such a great example of that. Really beautiful. And as you said earlier, there's,

Paula Robinson (13:41)

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lian (13:49)

I think, my own experience of interior design is, emblematic really of our culture's understanding of these things in the, was sharing with you, and I don't think I've ever shared this story on the show before, but with my daughter who's just turned 15, when she was a few months old, I was on maternity leave and I thought this is my opportunity to retrain and do something that I really love. So that was when I was back in my old corporate days.

Paula Robinson (13:58)

that correct? Yes.

Lian (14:22)

And I began this interior design training and was loving so much of the colours and the feelings and you know, the creativity. and then I just felt like I kept coming against this brick wall of numbers and, know, measuring plans and all of that. And I just thought this, this is not me and it's There's a point at which you realise you're trying to push through something that just isn't meant to be pushed through. And so I stopped and of course, you know, I've ended up doing what I'm meant to do, but there was always this part of me, it's just like, was definitely some connection with my soul and

Paula Robinson (14:48)

Hmm.

Yes.

Yes.

Lian (15:04)

interior design, not interior design as we know it. And I think linked to that, and I've heard you talk about this, there's that very kind of structural planned way of interior design.

Paula Robinson (15:04)

Yes.

Yes.

and

Lian (15:16)

very logical. And then there's our culture's ⁓ obsession with, you know, keeping up with the Joneses. And this is what the interior magazines are now saying is in and everyone's going to paint their walls grey and then they were going to paint their walls this colour. And it all is missing the heart of what you were describing there that you were

Paula Robinson (15:17)

Mm.

Yeah. ⁓

Yes.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Lian (15:42)

you were doing on behalf of your clients, but actually is pointing to something deeper that's my own sense is at play for all of us, whether we're aware of it or not.

Paula Robinson (15:47)

Mm.

⁓ Absolutely. Well, and I think that the problem is when you approach an interior, when you start from your head instead of from your intuition and your heart, it's always going to look cold and you're going, you're never, you're always going to be afraid to fail. So, ⁓ and I've seen this with people so many times where I'm just like, just be a kid again, just play. It's okay. It doesn't matter. Let's put the sofa in that position. If it doesn't work, we'll have a jolly good laugh and then we'll try something else and then we'll find something that absolutely works. But I think people are so afraid of failing. They're so afraid of, ⁓ as you said, keeping up with the Joneses, the...

Lian (16:25)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (16:49)

you know, thank you, design magazines. They're wonderful. And social media, there's some wonderful inspiration out there. But inspiration doesn't always come from seeing a picture of a living room say, ⁓ I want my living room to look like that. Inspiration can come from the silliest things. You know, when you're on holiday and you see a beautiful color or a texture or a

Lian (17:05)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (17:18)

shadow on a wall or something and something inside you is going, eee, pay attention to that and follow it. Where does it lead? And I think this is, I mean, this is something I banged on a lot about in the book is yes, the structural ⁓ side of ⁓ design is essential. Of course it is. You've got to be

Lian (17:21)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (17:46)

practical, you've got, you know, things have to fit, etc, etc. But you don't start there. You start by being a little kid going, how would I like this to be? You know, and you let that flow and then you can be practical. And I think people these days are so afraid of

Lian (17:53)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (18:16)

trusting their instinct, their intuition, and just allowing themselves to have fun. Because so many places you walk into, people's homes, as you said, know, gray, this passion for gray, it's great for some people, some people love gray. But what upsets me is when I see nurseries with gray. And it's like,

Lian (18:24)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (18:43)

You haven't thought of that child and how what they first see and what attracts them. I look at a baby. They're always reaching for the, you know, the brightly colored, shiny object, you know, they're not reaching for the gray thing. There's enough gray in life, you know, as you get older, why inflict it on them when they're young, when you need that,

Lian (18:52)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (19:08)

creation of magic and not creation awareness of magic in everything that you expose them to. But I think we've lost that in all the structure of how things are supposed to look. I remember

Lian (19:14)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (19:28)

an assistant, lovely assistant I had years ago. And she said to me, but she was going through training and she said, But Paula, you can't put green and blue together. I can't remember what it was they told them. And I'm like, Roz, what's that? Sky. What's that? Tree. Green and blue. The most natural combination in nature. Nevermind if they tell you you can't do it. If you feel it, do it. And I think...

Lian (19:54)

Everywhere in nature!

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (20:08)

It's that starting from that point of it's okay to go a little crazy in your interior and you can then refine it. But if you're starting from a point of view of being all straight-laced and correct and am I doing this right? And like you, know, highly creative and yet...

you you start being put into that box and you're like, no, no, this is too much for me. I don't want to do this. And people will either, um, you know, give up and get someone else to do it or, and they will be dictated to, um, you, you know, you have to do it this way. Um, and

Lian (20:38)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (21:01)

That's not how it works. mean, when you're working with a client, you, it's, it's a two way thing. You have to feel them. You have to understand them, not necessarily have all the information and so on. I think if you're lucky enough to be very in tune where you're an empath, you're very in tune with that. Cause not everybody is. It's very easy to quickly figure out how do you help somebody to transform their home into a sanctuary and into something that is is going to be of real benefit for them.

Lian (21:43)

Well, this ⁓ is led me to something that I was just pondering because it's a bit like you're preaching to the converted because everything you're talking about, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then I was actually, what you just said there, a sanctuary and something as a benefit, what would be really helpful is if someone's listening and they're like, well, Is it really that important what my house looks like? I'm not particularly interested in the tip interiors as long as it's neat and tidy and doesn't look absolutely horrendous. It's not really that important to me. And I'd love you to share what you see is really available. The impact our surroundings are having on us.

Paula Robinson (22:26)

Mm.

Hmm.

Lian (22:41)

for better or worse, because my sense

Paula Robinson (22:41)

Hmm. Hmm.

Lian (22:44)

is when we're not aware of the impact of our surroundings, they are still exerting an influence, but it's not necessarily an influence that we want, that's in alignment with us. And conversely, when we are consciously creating our surroundings in a way that is aligned for us and is supportive of us, it can have an incredible effect.

Paula Robinson (22:50)

Hmm

Mm.

Hmm.

Lian (23:08)

Um, so I'd love you to share what are we really talking about here? Because to me, this isn't just surface level, whether I hear what you're talking about in terms of the examples you've given, say for example, with that, uh, client and the window seat. And I know how there's all sorts in that, you know, in a child stuff and soul stuff and all sorts.

Paula Robinson (23:25)

Hmm.

Mm. Mm.

Lian (23:33)

But if someone doesn't know yet why this is so important, I'd love you to share with them why it is, what's really at play.

Paula Robinson (23:35)

Hmm.

Okay, what I would start with is, because there are a lot of people, as you said, who are like, I don't care what it looks like. It really doesn't matter to me at all. What I would say is, how it looks is part of it. But the most important thing of any interior is how it feels to you as you walk in. Have you ever had the experience of walking into a hotel or hotel room where you go, ⁓ God, I need another room? ⁓

Lian (24:20)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (24:22)

It's trusting that feeling of, this feel good to me? So for the person who's like, I really don't care what this looks like, as long as it's, as you say, neat, clean. But I would say, first of all, just check when I walk into my home and when I walk into each room, taking the time to clear your mind.

drop into your heart and go, how does this feel? Because in all our homes, there are certain rooms or certain corners or certain spaces, and this changes over time as well, that feel a little off to you. And sometimes it's that whole, try, it's very hard with your own home because you're so used to it.

to see it or to feel it ⁓ with fresh eyes, fresh senses. But if you can, I would say that is absolutely the most important thing is does your home and the spaces that you spend the most time in feel good to you? And to carry on from that, it's...

Lian (25:26)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (25:48)

And everybody's different. I mean, I once had a client who wanted a bedroom with no windows, you know, literally everybody. there, there's certain things that, yes, we all need, we need to be exposed to natural light. You know, when we're sleeping at night, we, need not to have light, you know, for our circadian rhythm, not to interrupt that and not to have blinking flashing things and there are all sorts of things that you know will help you to lead a healthier happier life. But I would say I have seen this in so many people actually I'm going to use a commercial example. Years ago in London this company brought me in because they had a couple of employees who were not being productive and they were having issues with. And I walked in and went, they've both got their back to the corridor and everyone's walking past them all the time. They don't feel comfortable. Move them here. and immediately their productivity went back up because there's certain things like,

Lian (27:02)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (27:13)

If you have your back to, and the people walking past you, you don't feel safe. It's part of our primal being that we can't ignore, no matter how much logic tells you, ⁓ no, no, I'm fine, don't worry about it. So I think we are all being very, very subtly affected by the spaces that we spend time in.

Lian (27:21)

Yes, yeah.

Paula Robinson (27:41)

And I think we've become very emithatized by, particularly, you know, for instance, in the States with all the ⁓ box stores and, you go into, well, I mean, in England, you know, you go into Home Depot, I step into one of those and I want to hang myself, you know, those terrible lights, there's no fresh air. And unless, you know, unless I have a list, don't, it's overwhelming.

Lian (28:10)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (28:10)

and over what I call the spells and the, know, there's nothing that sparks the imagination. And we've become very accustomed to that, you know, going to the supermarket. So we, I think we've become desensitized a great deal.

when it comes to our own spaces, where we work, where we live,

Unless we're ill, for instance, I think a lot of people when they're struggling with health issues become a lot more aware of this because they're spending so much time in bed or in one place. And it's important how your space feels to you and that it is a healing space and it will improve your recovery. mean, they've even done scientific studies of in hospitals, know, patients who have a view of greenery and nature recover faster than people looking at concrete. And they're mean, they're endless studies about about that. So I think it's

Lian (29:18)

Mm, yes.

Paula Robinson (29:30)

I don't know, it's being aware within yourself of what you need and everybody is different. And it's not, you know, shutting out the noise of what everything is supposed to look like or be like or whatever. It's what brings you joy? What makes you feel excited when you sit at your desk or how, wherever you work or your standing desk or what every day, what brings you joy? What, what are you about?

Lian (29:36)

Hmmmm

Paula Robinson (30:00)

And if you can incorporate that into your interior, I mean, rather like the example of me as a child and my obsession with fireplaces, I've had that obsession all my life because I love sitting around a fire and talking or reading. Again, I think that's primal. I don't know.

Lian (30:20)

Yes.

Well, it occurs to me that there's two aspects to this. There's that, as you say, primal aspect that is in common to all of us that to a large extent we've become desensitized to, we've overridden, we're not consciously aware of. ⁓ And then there's that individual, unique soul expression.

Paula Robinson (30:29)

and

Lian (30:48)

which also in our culture often doesn't get a look in. So starting with the primal part first, what are the common ways you've seen that people could observe and put more into alignment so it does support those primal needs and what would provide a more healing, nourishing environment to be in?

Paula Robinson (30:52)

No. Yes.

Mm. Mm.

Well, in terms of primal, we all have a need for refuge and prospect. It goes back to our cave days of refuge, our cave and prospect so we can see what is going on outside. ⁓ And how you arrange, for instance, your bedroom, where your bed is.

Lian (31:37)

Mmm lovely way to put it.

Paula Robinson (31:47)

you need to be able to, mean, it's ideal if you have a view of a window out of a window, that's very calming, but you also need to be able to see the door coming in to the bedroom because that gives you that sense of refuge prospect and it's creating things that reinforce that because it's, you know, very interestingly, I,

Lian (32:01)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (32:17)

I experienced it very profoundly. I've got an outdoor office as well. It's too hot to use at the moment. And the first time I sat in there, because of where it is and there's a huge tree by it, so nobody can see me in it, I just felt my entire system drop.

Lian (32:24)

hehe

Paula Robinson (32:44)

It was that strong of like, wow, I can see everything and I feel safe and cosy Nobody can get me here because nobody knows I'm here. So it was a very, very ⁓ strong reaction. And also, ⁓ the bedroom is very important because when we're sleeping, we need to be able to drop into deep sleep to heal. ⁓ And if you always have this sort of sense of

Lian (32:55)

you

Paula Robinson (33:14)

something's, I don't know what's coming at me, there's a part of your brain that is still on alert. ⁓

Lian (33:22)

Yeah so important

actually it really just dawned on me that this is what you're describing here is important all across the house but in our bedroom in particular where we truly are going to need to be off guard what you're talking about is even more important.

Paula Robinson (33:34)

Mm.

Yes.

Yes. And obviously as well, living room, ⁓ so many living rooms are arranged around the television and everything's focused towards the television. ⁓ And it makes such a difference ⁓ when I've done this with clients where I've just shifted some chairs facing a view.

Lian (33:50)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (34:09)

in a cosy corner and they're like, wow, this is amazing. Now, no, they can't see the television, but they can go and watch that on the sofa. It's not everything. We're not living in, know, unless you've got your hundred closest friends coming around and everybody needs to focus on the screen. There have to be corners.

Lian (34:27)

hehe

Paula Robinson (34:31)

where you have other activities, where you can read or whatever you want to do, where you feel safe and cosy and you have a view. ⁓ And also where you work, that's highly, highly important. It is no good sitting with your back to somebody's coming from behind you. You have to be able to see the door ⁓ to really

Lian (34:33)

Mmm.

Mm.

Paula Robinson (35:00)

just sort of drop your guard and really immerse in what you're doing. Because otherwise, there's always a part of you going, ⁓

Lian (35:06)

Mmm.

Yeah, subconscious part, but a very powerful subconscious part really, really beautifully said. So when you look at that more individual part, what do you feel, and so examples like the window see, your connection, you say, I think your connection to fireplaces is somewhat primal as well. I think we just all have that fascination to fire.

Paula Robinson (35:14)

Hmm. Yes. That you can't override.

Hmm.

Yes. Yes.

Lian (35:41)

we have fires often in our garden. think we've got three different kinds of like fire pits and things like that. And even on a hot day the other evening, my mother-in-law was here and I said to my husband, after dinner, we have a fire pit? And all of us just sat there for hours around the fire, just chatting, dogs on laps and had one of those moments. like, this is what

Paula Robinson (35:44)

Mmm. Lovely.

Mm. Mm.

Lian (36:09)

Humes have been doing for most of human history and I love watching that, the way that we all kind of settle down into something that's so natural to us. So I think again that there's something primal but also probably important for you in a way that I think is a symbol that is for you, it's showing something to you about you which my sense is

Paula Robinson (36:11)

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Mm.

Hmm.

Mm.

Lian (36:37)

that's true for all of us and that I find fascinating. I remember years and years ago this was maybe even as long as 15 years ago. I read this article by, I can't remember the chap's name. I'm going to

Paula Robinson (36:39)

and

Lian (36:57)

I'll remember it and I'll pop it in the show notes. I don't know if he still is even about, but I want to credit him and I can't remember his name in this moment, no, I can't. Steve Pavlina, he was kind of in the early days of the self-development world and one of the very first bloggers. And I read this article and it was about priming your mind and really simple, but so powerful. And he was saying, what you surround yourself with is

Paula Robinson (37:00)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Okay.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lian (37:23)

speaking to you at that subconscious level all the time. And so he was saying, you know, the pen that you have on your desk or, you know, this that you have in your awareness. And because of, I have that natural passion for what I surround myself with, really spoke to me. was like the first time I'd really heard someone talk about it from that place. And I, I see there is, I guess, a sort of generic way we can approach that.

Paula Robinson (37:25)

you

Yeah.

and

Lian (37:52)

but there is this soulful way we can approach this, really listening to what is it that is speaking to us individually? And my sense is, and I'd love to hear your sense of this, it has this, let's just choose an example for the moment. And this could be, you know, number of different things. Say for example, I have this heart rose quartz.

Paula Robinson (38:11)

Mm.

Mmm.

Lian (38:20)

that someone bought many

Paula Robinson (38:21)

Mmm.

Lian (38:22)

years ago.

Me having that in my awareness is speaking to me at the subconscious level all the time. It's reflecting me to me. And it calls more of me forward, invites more of me. That's what I see is possible when we begin to create our surroundings in that way that is specifically speaking to our soul as an expression of our soul and a reflection of our soul all at once.

Paula Robinson (38:29)

and

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Lian (38:50)

I would love to hear

your sense because I have a sense that's what you're really getting to in some of these examples that are very individual.

Paula Robinson (38:58)

Yes, just backtracking a moment to the fire. Again, Primal, and you know this as a storyteller, how we learnt as human beings before writing was story, sharing story. So the fire is...

in us is an association of learning and growing and of community because it's not just your story, your myth, it's the communal. so yeah, I mean, I think the interesting thing of how we choose objects as well, or maybe how they choose us or how they speak to us.

Lian (39:41)

Yes.

Paula Robinson (39:56)

is it's on several levels because for instance your rose quartz in the heart shape has been carved, somebody carved that. there is the, again, there's a community there, there's a communion going on because the energy of the person who created that

beyond, I mean, it's on several levels, because obviously that's it's, it's the connection. It's the connection to the earth, because anything that we're drawn to, that is natural, it's our connection to the earth. And we're so disconnected in so many ways. Now, you know, I think people spend the vast majority of people spend 95 % of their time indoors, ⁓ where that's not our nature. But

Lian (40:27)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (40:54)

I digress there. So I think it's, you're associating with something, it's the physicality of it and there is an association that you may or may not be aware of. But when it's something that has been crafted, there is that person's energy in it as well. Does that?

Lian (41:16)

Hmmmm

Yes.

Paula Robinson (41:24)

So I think it is that trusting your instinct because sometimes, actually another example of me as a kid, I don't know how my parents put up with it, but we were in Scotland and I found this huge, great rock and I want to insist it on taking it home with me.

to New York because this rock spoke to me and bless them, they agreed. mean, anyway, yes, they were, they were. So sometimes it's that you don't know why something is speaking to you and it doesn't actually matter. But yes, as you say,

Lian (42:00)

Fabulous parents!

Paula Robinson (42:17)

It actually helps you to bring out more of who you are. and, ⁓ if you surround yourself with things that speak to you and you're like, I don't know why I'm choosing this, but, okay. I think with the fullness of time, it, you start to discover, you start to.

It's because it's story. is, you know, your own story is emerging with, I mean, this was something that, you know, we, touched on together is the story of things, because everything has a story. look at people and say, you know, we're very aware because of aging and so on, you know, their, their past, their present and their potential future, but everything has a story and

Lian (42:50)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (43:17)

I think that if you become more aware of that, you're less, we're less inclined to just throw things away, just like, ⁓ who cares, just throw it out. It's, and obviously it's, it's harder to do with mass produce things versus, ⁓ you know, if you have something like that, that beautiful rose quartz.

And I think as humans, what we are, our evolution and everything that in our individual lives and as a whole, it's all about story unfolding and being aware of the story of others and of other, you know, everything else that inhabits our world, especially trees.

Lian (44:11)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (44:12)

Because if you're aware of story, you're

less inclined to chop a tree down

Lian (44:17)

Yes, my

gosh, yes. There's so much I could say in response to that, but I'm recognizing the time's flown by and there's something I want to ask you before we close. If someone's listening and...

Paula Robinson (44:23)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Mmm.

Lian (44:35)

What I'm wondering is whether there are...

How can I put this? So the way I've chosen the last two houses we've lived in, or we've chosen the last two houses we lived in, we're very much from the place you're describing. We're very intuitive feeling that this is where we're meant to be. And I was talking funny enough to a client yesterday about that that's the same way as we chose schools for our children, completely putting

Paula Robinson (44:50)

Mmm

and

Lian (45:12)

logic and practicalities and you know this is what makes sense to one side and first feeling and and so it gives you a great start you've managed to choose your home from that place and then everything you're describing can kind of build on that foundation of it being the right feeling from the first place if someone's pondering

Paula Robinson (45:17)

you

Brilliant.

Mmm.

Lian (45:36)

I'm not sure, you know, for whatever reason, I'm in a circumstance where I don't really feel like I chose it or it doesn't really, it didn't have that feeling, but you know, practicality is dictated. I lived here. What would you suggest there? Do you feel there are some sort of fundamental disconnects where a place isn't right for us or can this be addressed? What would you say to someone wondering this?

Paula Robinson (45:42)

Mm.

and I think it well, there are degrees of it. If you feel extremely disturbed in your house and you're not sleeping, then ⁓ I think it's a case of and you can't move, you're stuck with it for whatever reason. That's when you need to have a space clearing to help clear the energy. And that's a whole other whole other topic. ⁓ I do think that if yours

Lian (46:34)

Mmm.

And from that, you mean

more from a say, a shamanic perspective.

Paula Robinson (46:43)

Yes,

yes. And space clearing is highly effective. It really, really is. If you're on the spectrum of, I've kind of had to move into this place and it's not really my cup of tea and this, that and the other. And it's not yours, they say forever. I think you can still make it feel better and more you by addressing what you can change within it, whether it's the arrangement, again, it's going back into the, okay, so walk into the, it walks through the front door and go, okay, how does this make me feel? And if you feel overwhelmed, it's, it's breaking that down of what is making me feel overwhelmed? What are the, the, ⁓ things that I could try to change it? In terms of the arrangement of the space. And also it's introducing elements of, because we all have things that we absolutely love.

even small, just small things like your Rose Quartz example, things that, know, people talk about creating an altar and, you know, that's about things that you have an affinity to and that you can turn to and it brings you a sense of peace. I think you can do that with your home. I would say,

One of the things that will definitely help any space is plants, live plants, having flowers, airing the space regularly, opening the windows, opening the doors, creating. If you don't have enough light in a space, use mirrors to reflect light or

Lian (48:42)

Mm.

Paula Robinson (49:04)

if you can use glass surfaces again because they reflect light because there are a lot I think living in dark places is is a challenge to most people.

Lian (49:13)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (49:15)

And we were talking about earlier animals, the difference that animals make to a space. They really, really do change the energy of a space. I think it's starting small, particularly if it's not your forever home, trying to identify why doesn't this feel good to me? What are, and this is something I go into in the book, ⁓ in the beginning.

Lian (49:20)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (49:44)

what isn't working. It actually, you know, and it helps a lot of people to make lists. ⁓ And it's very interesting to refer back to, because then you can tackle, okay, you know, the entrance hall is cluttered, it just feels as though it's coming at me when I walk through the front door. Then the practical thing, what can I do to improve that? ⁓

Lian (49:49)

Mmm.

Paula Robinson (50:12)

And I think it's very hard when you're in a temporary situation. But as you and I were both saying, is, you know, we go somewhere on holiday or to a hotel room and we're rearranging furniture. Now, most people will think we're barking mad, but you know, it makes us feel better. And I don't think people really credit how much

Lian (50:28)

Mmm.

Hehehehe

Paula Robinson (50:39)

moving furniture helps because also what you're interrupting is traffic patterns because we all get used to we walk from the sofa to the kitchen, the kitchen to our bedroom in a set traffic pattern. And when you move furniture, you're interrupting the pattern.

Lian (50:41)

Mmm.

Hmm. Which then makes us less and less conscious.

Yes, it's like we become more and more ultimatum. Can't see these things, can't feel these things. Hmm. Yeah, I love that.

Paula Robinson (51:03)

Yes, yes. And also if you've been unhappy in a space ⁓ or it's negative associations, changing up the arrangement. mean, and I mean, it can be as simple as taking a chest of drawers that is straight on and moving it cat-a-corner. It's little, the littlest things, it's all about change. It's, I suppose, you know, if you,

Lian (51:24)

Hmm.

Paula Robinson (51:33)

going back to story. you look at, okay, what's the story of my home at the moment? Oh, it's an awful story. I want to close the book, put it away. All right, how could I change that? How could I edit it to make it a story that I actually enjoy reading?

Lian (51:42)

Mmm.

Mm, yes. my gosh. Which ⁓ I feel like we might need to come back and do an episode two, actually, because I've realised what I'm about to ask you is opening up a whole other chapter of this story. So I'm going to say this briefly, but I do think this is a whole other episode. Because I've tended to live in very old houses, they have a long story of their own, as well as the inhabitants of the home.

Paula Robinson (51:59)

that would be fun.

and

you

Hmm.

Lian (52:22)

And I've really seen how understanding that story of the home allows us to kind of co-create with it in a whole other way. So I'm not going to say anything more about that because I think that is a whole other episode. So I will stop there. Yes.

Paula Robinson (52:30)

Yes.

That would be a really fun episode.

Lian (52:39)

a funny memory just came back to me hearing what you were saying about how, you know, even if we're somewhere temporarily, the change that we can make. And I remember I've got this photo of When I was a teenager, I went Greek Island hopping with my best friend at the time. And there's this photo. And it's so funny because it's so symbolic of everything we're talking about where she just had a sleeping bag. We're sharing a tent. She just had a sleeping bag and she's naturally quite messy. So she had a rucksack with her clothes everywhere. And my side, I'd intentionally brought this scarf.

Paula Robinson (52:53)

Mm.

Lian (53:19)

floral scarf. And so I had my bed all neat and then I had my rucksack and then over the rucksack I placed this scarf to make it was almost like an altar. And then I brought a framed photo that was on this scarf. And it was

Paula Robinson (53:21)

Lovely. ⁓

Lian (53:34)

all kind of like laid out like this kind of like miniature little, I don't know, sitting room or something or bedroom.

Paula Robinson (53:40)

I loved that!

Lian (53:45)

because we were hopping, so we were moving from place to place. don't know how many times in the space in these weeks, and yet each time I'd construct this elaborate interior.

Paula Robinson (53:54)

Yeah, past life as a nomad because you know, women craft the interior of and it's everything is in a very set positions, even though they're moving and the interior is always beautifully crafted. I mean, that's just, you know, total nomadic culture. That's wonderful. That's perfect.

Lian (54:00)

cool. Yes. My little bit of Siberian DNA speaking through me there. ⁓ But yes, what testament to what you were saying, and like even somewhere we're very temporarily at, the difference we can make and we can create it to be a space that's actually nourishing to us.

Paula Robinson (54:24)

I love that. I love that.

you

Yeah, and it's the little detail of, as you said, just a scarf over concealing the rucksack and creating it creates a focal point. gives you a sense of joy and rest. yeah, perfect.

Lian (54:44)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Thank you for bringing back that memory. I just had that visual. I haven't actually got a photograph of it. Anyway, now I'll dig that out and I'll show you mine if you show me your photo of your children's bookcase. So, where can listeners find out more about you and your wonderful work and of course your book, which I do have myself?

Paula Robinson (55:00)

I'd love to see the photo. Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

Hmm.

bless. Thank you. So my website is www.paularobinson.com.

And the book is called The Healing Home and Garden Reimagining Spaces for Optimal Well-being.

Lian (55:39)

Wonderful. And again, I would so recommend listeners, if they hear something in this, go find out more about what you do. I think it's absolutely wonderful.

This has been such a delight. And again, I think we've got another episode at us, so we'll come back and do that soon. Thank you so much, Paula.

Paula Robinson (55:52)

lot of fun. Yeah, I think so.

Thank you. It's been wonderful, Lian Really enjoyed it.

Lian (56:04)

What a delightful show. Paula is such a gem. Here were my favourite parts. Start with a feeling and then refine with form. Notice how each room lands in your body. Create refuge and prospect by seeing both the door and the view. And then let measurements and plans serve what already feels right. Small changes shift everything.

Rearrange to interrupt stale traffic patterns, personalize even temporary spaces and enliven rooms with plants, natural light, fresh air, mirrors and the quiet presence of animals. not so quiet always in my case.

Design as a living story, choose objects that speak to you, honor their makers and materials. And when a house feels unsettled, consider energetic space clearing so the home and its history can move with you rather than against you. If you'd to hop on over to the show notes for the links, they're at bemythical.com slash podcast slash five one seven. And there's a very special offer from Paula that you'll find on those show notes.

And if you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path in this crazy modern world, and we benefit from guidance, kinship and support, come join our Academy of the Soul, UNIO. You can discover more and join us by hopping over to be mythical.com slash UNIO and we will walk the path home together. If you don't want to miss out on next week's episode, head on over to your favorite podcasting app or platform of choice, including YouTube. and hit that subscribe or follow button. That way you'll get each episode delivered to Stranger Device, auto magically, as soon as it's released. Thank you so much for listening. You've been wonderful. I'm sending you all my love. I'll catch you again next week. And until then, go be mythical.

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