How to decode your dreams and change your life - Jane Teresa Anderson
Episode 528, released 27th November 2025.
In this week’s show Lian is joined by Jane Teresa Anderson BSc Hons. Jane Teresa is a dream analyst, dream therapist, author, podcast host, and mentor, living in Hobart, Australia.
Published by Hachette, Little Brown (Piatkus), Random House, and Harper Collins, Jane Teresa Anderson is the author of seven books about dreams and dreaming, and her 2024 debut fiction novel, Ninth Life.
She is a frequent guest in the media and an accomplished radio dream talk-back expert, interpreting callers’ dreams for more than 1,500 shows across commercial and ABC stations.
Listen or watch on:
Or if you prefer to read: Scroll right down for the transcript
Jane Teresa hosts a long-running podcast series, The Dream Show with Jane Teresa Anderson, where she analyses her guests’ dreams and shares dream interpretation tips and insights. The Dream Show celebrated 16 years (and 290 episodes) in May 2025.
With an Honours degree in Zoology specialising in developmental neurobiology from the University of Glasgow, (graduating as Jane Teresa Newton), Jane Teresa has been researching dreams since 1992 and developing and teaching dream alchemy practices (exercises) that shift perspective and reprogram unconscious limiting beliefs.
In early 2017 she established The Dream Academy as a platform to deliver her courses online.
Jane Teresa’s approach to dream analysis, dream therapy, and dream alchemy is based on her independent research and on deep work with clients since 1992. She consults by Zoom.
In this episode, Lian and Jane look at dreams in the most grounded and personal way. Jane shares her journey from neurobiology to a radio experiment that became a major research project. They explore how dream images grow from the last day or two of lived experience, how the mind pulls old memories into the mix, and why this approach differs so deeply from symbol-driven or archetypal methods.
The conversation turns towards what actually makes sense in practice… how personal dreamwork reveals what the mind is trying to update and how a symbolic image changes the moment you speak it aloud.
Listen if you have ever been chased by a recurring dream, wondered whether outlandish scenes mean anything, or sensed that your dreams are trying to move something in you that daylight has not touched.
We’d love to know what YOU think about this week’s show. Let’s carry on the conversation… please leave a comment below.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
How personal dreamwork differs from symbol-based or archetypal interpretation, and why it lands more cleanly
Why telling a dream aloud brings new clues to the surface and begins to shift the inner pattern
What happens when you rewrite a dream image through simple dream alchemy and feel the effects the next day
Resources and stuff spoken about:
Join UNIO, The Community for Wild Sovereign Souls: This is for the old souls in this new world… Discover your kin & unite with your soul’s calling to truly live your myth.
Don’t want to miss a thing?
Subscribe (BTW, it’s absolutely FREE) to the show on your favourite platform or app by clicking the relevant button below… That way you’ll receive each episode automagically straight to your device as soon as it’s released!
Thank you!
Lian & Jonathan
Episode Transcript:
Please note: We are a small team and not able to check through the transcript our software provides. So you may find some words are out of place and a few sentences don’t make complete sense. If you do see something utterly ridiculous we’d love you to let us know so we can correct it. Please email any howlers with the time stamp to team@bemythical.com.
Lian (00:00)
How different could dream work be if we treated our dreams as a reflection of our last day or two, rather than a coded message from some distant archetype? And just to be clear, I'm not hating on archetypes. If you know anything about me, you'll know I love them. And yet this episode provides a different way of working with dreams that I think you're going to love. Hello, my beautiful souls, a huge warm welcome back.
In this episode, I'm joined by Jane Theresa Anderson, a dream analyst, dream therapist, author, mentor, and longtime host of the dream show. Jane's path moved from neurobiology into decades of research on dreams, including a radio experiment that unexpectedly blossoms into a major study and book contract. Together we explore the deeply personal nature of dreams, how the imagery from the last day or two of our lived experience blends with memory, emotion, and old patterns, and why this grounded approach can be so different from symbol-based or archetypal interpretations.
The conversation turns towards what truly helps in practice, how personal dream work reveals what the mind is trying to update and how an image begins to change the moment you speak it aloud. Listen, if you've ever been chased by a recurring dream, wondered whether outlandish scenes mean anything or sense that your dreams are trying to move something in you that daylight has not yet touched. And before we jump into all of that good stuff.
First, it's time for your weekly omen from the algorithmic oracles. The dream keeper whispers, walk past and your feed fills with a jumble of dreams you forget by breakfast. Subscribe and each week new episodes land with a clarity of a lucid dream. Best press it now. And if you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path in this crazy modern world and would benefit from guidance, kinship and support.
Come join us at Unio, the community for wild sovereign souls. Unio is the living home for the wild sovereign soul path, where together we reclaim our wildness, actualise our sovereignty and awaken our souls can discover more and walk with us by hopping over to BeMythical.com/unio or click the link in the description. And now back to this week's episode, let's dive in.
Lian (02:41)
Hello Jane, a huge welcome to the show.
Jane Teresa Anderson (02:45)
Hello, Lian. Thank you for having me.
Lian (02:47)
Oh, my pleasure entirely. dreams are one of my absolute favourite things to explore, talk about. So this is a real treat for me personally. And I know it's also one that listeners are going to love too. So can't wait to get into all of the ways that you work with dreams. But first I would love to know how you came to be doing such a thing? How have dreams become your passion and work? Where did that begin?
Jane Teresa Anderson (03:21)
I think they were my passion as a very young child. They weren't work and I never ever thought that I would work in dreams. In fact, I thought I'd be a scientist. yeah, it was. as a child, well, to start with, assumed that as a child, everybody had the kind of amazing dreams I had. But when I used to talk about them, I realised that not everybody did. ⁓ I was, although I live in Australia, I'm English by birth. And, you know, I had dreams like
Lian (03:29)
a dream come true literally.
Jane Teresa Anderson (03:50)
you know, the typical tsunami dream and would wonder why, why, why, Mum, Mum, why do I dream of tidal waves? Because like we don't actually have tidal waves here in England. I mean, they're not going to come and wash me over. Mum, why do I dream of snakes? Because I've never seen a snake. And of course, these were actually also the days before we had the television. So, you know, it was quite random that I would have these dreams. I was really excited and really always very excited to go to bed and Mum,
Lian (04:05)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (04:18)
Why do I dream of being a boy and having, I'm walking along the road and I'm a shepherd and all these wolves come out and they're going to eat me. But luckily I wake up. My mum would go, but I was really excited. And then as I grew a little bit older, I'd wonder why, you know, I think, well, you do I go to a different place? Did I live before? Was I a boy before? All the kind of questions that young children ask themselves, but nobody else was really interested in my questions. I kind of kept them to myself and I...
Lian (04:29)
you
Jane Teresa Anderson (04:48)
thought that I wanted to be a scientist. So as time went by, I did go to university, went to Glasgow University, and I studied science, and I specialised in neurobiology. So I was really interested in how the brain interprets the world around us. So we sort of roll on about 10 years after that, and I'm still always really, you know, madly excited about my dreams. And I went through a period of only about three weeks.
where everybody I talked to seemed to want to tell me, I had a dream the other night. So people were just, without me mentioning dreams, they were mentioning dreams. And as they talked about their dreams, I'd think, how come they don't really know what that means? Because I've kind of got an inkling what that might mean. And so I eventually realised, penny dropped, that this is something that I should probably follow. I think I had a couple of dreams indicated to me I should really follow this passion. And the way that I did it, being trained as a
Lian (05:41)
quite meta, isn't it?
Jane Teresa Anderson (05:43)
It is, Okay, all right. Well, you see, trained as a scientist too, you wait for the next step. I read around a lot of the main literature sources that most of your listeners will be familiar with and didn't completely gel with all of it. So being the scientist, I thought, you know, I really need to study this for myself and come at it from a different angle. Now, Whatever I've done in life, I've also done a lot of radio and media stuff. So I happened to be on radio and I was talking about dreams and we, and you know, the presenters said, this is really interesting. We should get some people to call in with their dreams. I was kind of thrown in the deep end a bit. And it had a programme that went every week for about a year. And after a year, I suddenly heard myself saying on radio, much to my own surprise, heard myself say, I'm going to be doing some research on dreams. And I'd love it if you could contact me. Here's my home phone number, because these were pre-internet days. What am I giving out my home phone number on radio for? Call me if you'd like to take part in my research. What research? I didn't know I was going to do research. And then to top it all, and when I've done the research, I'm going to write a book about it. Am I really?
Lian (06:57)
you
What are those movements? Your soul was just like, I've got this! ⁓
Jane Teresa Anderson (07:05)
So of course by the time...
Yeah, shut her up and let us take over, please!
So by the time I got home, had lots of people had phoned my answering machine, over the next few days I've got several hundred people together. So then I had to frame how I was going to do this research exactly. And I came up with the idea, which I did, which was I had a basic survey. And really, I got people to not only write down their dreams, but write down specific things about what happened in the day before. So things like.
Lian (07:25)
God,
Jane Teresa Anderson (07:42)
what actually happened, what emotions came up, what issues came up, what problems came up, what insights did you have? And then I looked at what was happening in the dreams and what was happening in daytime and sort of make connections. But the other bit of the radio story was that I think only about a couple of weeks after I'd made that big announcement, I had a phone call from ⁓ a newspaper journalist that said, my literary agent is really keen to hear about the book that you're that you're going to write when you've done all the research, can I give you his details? And I thought, yeah, well, that's all right. For him to be just contacting me out of blue and mentioning it to a journalist, he must be some sort of maybe new startup literary agent. But he turned up to be one of Australia's main literary agents. And within three weeks, three weeks, I had a contract with HarperCollins. And this is in 1992. So was like before people wrote their own books. It was totally magical.
I had this and I said, yes, well, it's fine. I'm really happy to sign this contract, but I haven't actually done the research yet. So I don't actually know what I'm going to write. Long story short, I did the research, the book came out and just, doors kept opening from there.
Lian (08:55)
Goodness me. What a fabulous story. my gosh. Incredible. You mentioned there that ⁓ when you started to really turn your attention to dreams, and I guess you could say the kind of working, interpreting, analysing dreams, that you were like, everything that's typically said about dreams.
Jane Teresa Anderson (08:59)
you
Lian (09:23)
sort of jives with your understanding of them. Would you be able to say a bit more about that?
Jane Teresa Anderson (09:28)
Yeah, so obviously dream dictionaries were the first thing that I chucked out, so they didn't make any sense whatsoever. Some of the some of the areas I did like, know, ⁓ self-inquiry with the symbols, dialogue, those kind of things, they checked in. Although I'm although I very much love Jungian work, a lot of it didn't really fit with the way that I like to look at dreams with people. So I tend to not look at dreams from an archetypal point of view, even from a universal point of view.
Lian (09:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (09:57)
I look at all dreams, I think it's more helpful for the dreamer, all dreams is reflecting what's happening for that person in their world today. So how is your mindset while you're asleep processing all your conscious and unconscious experiences that you've had today and maybe yesterday? And how is that processing updating your mindset so that in an ideal world, you'll wake up in the morning with a new idea about how to go about life, about who you are,
about what life is and your perspectives on life in general. Of course, it's not really like that. The way that I look at dreams is your dreams are processing the last one or two days of your conscious and unconscious experiences to try to make sense of your world. But in doing that, what I've noticed is that commonly, whatever experience you've just had, consciously or unconsciously, your dreamy mind go, yeah, let's just look back in time. now this is a very similar kind of situation. This resonates with what happened for you when you were 10 or 15 or two. And then so you'll be shown parts of your past in the dream or symbols will come up that remind you of your past. And you catch your mindset, you catch your dreams trying their best to update and change your mindset, but really getting stuck in, look, let's just go back to the foundational beliefs, all the things you learned when you were two or three about life.
Lian (11:01)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (11:24)
They've been with you a long time. We're just going to keep that as the default. So we see in dreams often that we're just going back to our limiting beliefs. We're going back to our traumas. We're going back to whatever. This is you. This is your life. And you can catch by looking at the dreams, I guess, in the way that I do with people, what our foundational beliefs are, why we're stuck with them, what we need to do to unhook from them to move forward. So a lot of my work is done,
Lian (11:28)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (11:51)
with a process I call dream alchemy, which is talking to your unconscious mind using the language that it presents to you in dreams,
Lian (12:00)
A…
Jane Teresa Anderson (12:01)
and ⁓ reprogramming and changing your mindset. Yeah, so very personal.
Lian (12:07)
That really makes sense. Thank you for summarising that so clearly. So my sense is because you are also talking about someone's past experiences, conditioning, beliefs, isn't by its very nature, therefore, it's not only processing what they've had, what's happened that day. But how can I ask this? Because ⁓ I love the I guess, sort of more tangible, what's present in one's life right now is almost the doorway to anything else that's going on for that person. That really makes sense. However, there's some, let me just try and tune into the place I'm wanting to ask this question from.
Jane Teresa Anderson (12:43)
Yes.
Lian (12:53)
So in my experience, and this is for me personally, also when I've worked with, say for example, Jungian therapists, or when I'm working with clients myself, dreams can also be showing us something that is, it could be something of the future. It could be more of a kind of premonition.
Or it could be something that's kind of calling us forth into something new, as opposed to processing something that's kind of here and now. Would you agree with that?
Jane Teresa Anderson (13:30)
Yes and no. So I've personally had a lot of experience with precognitive dreams as well. So I know they happen. And I've also been contacted by a lot of people in that basket. So I did also do a lot of research much later and Random House published a book I wrote on that called The Shape of Things to Come back in 1998. So we kind of went quite deeply into that. But to answer your question more precisely.
Lian (13:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (13:55)
It may sound mundane and everyday to say that, you know, we go to sleep and we're processing our recent experiences. But our recent experiences aren't just, went to the supermarket and I got really tired and I watched TV and I fell asleep. Our recent experiences are also our own individual pondering upon what is life about then, what are my spiritual ideas about life, what do I feel about the planet, you know. So we're processing everything that makes you human, everything that makes you who you are
Lian (14:13)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (14:23)
is being processed at night through your dreams. So in a sense, at one level, we're processing our experiences in order to update our mindset, in order to wake up in the morning and in an ideal world, see see life in a different way, make different choices, respond to the world differently, have a different future. So to some extent, our dreams sometimes can act as possible blueprints for the future. maybe we could try this. How would that turn out? Maybe we could try this. How would that turn out? So in some senses, we can also preview possible futures in that way. At the same time, when we're asleep and dreaming, the front part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex, which normally keeps us very sensible and ⁓ kind of edits our day-to-day thoughts, is largely inactive.
Lian (14:57)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (15:15)
So we're left with the rest of our wonderful, magnificent selves to plod along and process whatever it is we're processing about what it is to be human. So we can get in very deep in that processing. We're getting into the kind of stuff that when we're awake, we're ⁓ blinkering or pushing down or not seeing. So in that sense, much of our dream work is seeing the greater parts of ourselves that we don't normally acknowledge while we're awake.
Lian (15:35)
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (15:45)
So in that sense, we can see the greater magnificent aspects of ourselves that we have not brought into consciousness. We can see our talents, we can see our gifts, we can see all of that. And then when we wake up, we have a choice by looking at our dreams, whether we accept that or not. But it's still, yeah.
Lian (15:45)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yes, that really makes sense. Yes,because it can sound, as you say, can sound mundane, this idea of processing when you were just thinking about, well, I didn't really do anything today. But as you say, it includes the entirety of our experience, including our spiritual work contemplation, so on and so forth. That really makes sense. You mentioned that you don't approach dreams from an archetypal perspective. Would you say more about why that's the case?
Jane Teresa Anderson (16:17)
Yeah.
Yes.
I just find that although I could do that, if somebody, if a client says to me, can we do it archetypally? I would do that. But I just find that it drives home more clearly if I help a person to see a dream from a personal perspective. I find that I can totally see the value in Jungian work, but I just find that it can, take people outside of themselves to look at a more universal picture rather than a personal picture. And I think we can make more progress in our personal development and our spiritual development if we look at, yes, but how am I experiencing life? What are the experiences that I am having consciously and unconsciously rather than relate it to, this is a general, I've got a witch archetype going here. Yeah, maybe you do, but what is it exactly? Where did it come from? How exactly do you feel it?
Lian (17:00)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yes, that makes sense. And I guess if someone's interests lie in archetypes, in a way it is personal, like their relationship to the archetypes is what's kind of showing up, which is different if someone isn't interested in archetypes and pondering archetypes. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. And then a recent dream I had has just come to mind because
Jane Teresa Anderson (17:44)
Yes.
Yeah, that's right, yes.
Lian (17:57)
listening to you this, I'm wondering if listeners are thinking, ⁓ okay, but some of my dreams are so kind of out there and you know, don't bear any resemblance to my day-to-day life or my past life. How, like, what am I meant to do with that? And so I'm going to give an example of a recent dream I had, which was
Jane Teresa Anderson (18:18)
Yes.
Lian (18:24)
I've been having some really intense dreams recently, actually, but you certain dreams really stay with you. And it's kind of those those images that just keep being present if this is one of those dreams. And I can I can share it quite quickly. But it's a good example of a dream that's just like, that's never actually happened to me in real life. Where is this telling me? I mean, I can absolutely have.
Jane Teresa Anderson (18:34)
Yeah.
Lian (18:49)
looked at it from a guess archetypal and alchemical perspective I'm interested if I didn't have that context what you would what you would do with something of this this kind if that makes sense so um in in this dream there was a there was a kind of context to this that I don't recall but I think it began I was with
Jane Teresa Anderson (19:00)
Yes. Yes.
Lian (19:12)
someone else who was a man but I don't know who they were they were kind of like a man that in the dream was very known to me and close to me but I don't I couldn't place who they were in my waking life and then we were being chased by a wild boar and then just at the moment where the wild boar was going to get us I think we were kind of almost like lay on the floor with it kind of above us and we'd all sort of crashed to a halt I think. don't know whether we had kind of managed to, I think we, I don't know honestly if we'd managed to kill it or something, but it kind of like collapsed sort of, clearly not conscious above us, I think.
Actually, I'm going to double check my notes because that bit feels important. I can't recall. That's not the bit that I focused on, but I have written it down. So let me just see quickly.
Jane Teresa Anderson (20:06)
You
Lian (20:13)
It'll make sense because it segues into the next part and you'll need to know this.
Yes. Okay. So it is, as I've just said, so it's a bit of a mystery. We've just escaped being gored by a wild boar. I don't recall how and he's lying beside us, not dead, but no longer a threat. Then a huge lion shows up and just as we're thinking, oh my goodness, we've just escaped being like.
Jane Teresa Anderson (20:38)
You
Lian (20:38)
gawd by a boar. Now there's this huge lion and then the lion, instead of being concerned with us, goes to mate the boar. And so we're kind of lying right underneath like both this boar and the lion. So we've got this bird's eye view of the lion about to mate the boar. And then the lion drips urine onto my hand.
Jane Teresa Anderson (20:53)
You
you
Lian (21:09)
and onto the man who I'm with, onto his forehead. And then we go from being terrified and, my God, what's happening, to bursting out laughing of all the things to happen. After we'd just now had escaped death, we've now just been weed on by a lion. And it was so funny. I ended up, was later in my sleep, I was remembering it and laughing out loud in my sleep because my husband the next morning said you were laughing in your sleep.
Jane Teresa Anderson (21:22)
You
You
Lian (21:39)
even as I remember why that was! So, I think a good example of a really out there dream where, you know, I've never been gored by a wild boar or weed on by a massive lion.
Jane Teresa Anderson (21:53)
Lion. Yeah, that's absolutely gorgeous. Yeah, we'll look at it. So ⁓ yeah, of course, you know, the dreams that people have, or they bring to me or that I have, are always never look like or very rarely look like what's actually happening in life. So we have to sort of go through that to see how it connects. But at the end of the dream, although you kind of almost woke up laughing, what was the feeling at the end that you had once the lion had peed on you? What was the feeling at the end of the you had at the end of the dream?
Lian (22:08)
Hmm.
guess, yeah, just joy and relief and appreciation and just almost like, kind of like, isn't life like funny stroke amazing? That kind of feeling.
Jane Teresa Anderson (22:23)
in the dream.
Yeah.
That's lovely.
I was hoping you were going to say the word relief because that's what the lion did. It relieved itself on you at the end as well. So the way that I will obviously if I'm working with a client, we take an hour to go into it, but we're just going to cut to the chase. So I would say that the unknown male in the dream would be that you felt very close to.
Lian (22:43)
Of course, yes, yeah.
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (23:04)
is a part of yourself, probably you're yang so I would go archetypal there, probably you're yang or I'd say to people, so this is maybe the part of yourself that relates to the outer world, it might be your work, it might be your business, it might be your left brain, it's that kind of side of yourself. And you obviously feel quite close to this self, but you're being chased by this wild boar. Now, I would be talking to the person to flesh out what it is, but some possibilities include this being an experience of
Lian (23:06)
Mm-mm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (23:31)
Having had a really boring conversation with someone or met an old bore, because sometimes we have these kind of puns in our dreams as well. Being bored, yes. But also a feeling of maybe you having been boring into some stuff, not being boring, but, you know, delving deep into something. Yeah. Because I tend to look at the animals. Yeah.
Lian (23:39)
Mmm, that's interesting.
Oh, yes. Delving in. Can I just add this? Because it's interesting. It's a wild boar in particular, because I actually really like wild boars. I've got, you you have sort of like certain animals that you really love. For some bizarre reason, wild boars are one of them for me. So I wonder whether that's relevant. It's not like it's, you know, a random animal that I never think about. I particularly like wild boars.
Jane Teresa Anderson (24:05)
Yes. Yeah.
Of course. Yeah.
Of course, yeah. And like when I'm doing an hour with someone I would have already said to you, well what does a wild-born mean to you? So what does a wild-born mean to you? You love it, but why?
Lian (24:20)
Yes, sorry, I wanted to give you that context. Yeah, of course. know, they're quite pleasing. I feel like they're just a pleasing design. The way they look just pleases me. I love the fact they are, you know, we've domesticated the pig and so they're kind of like of the pig but retained their wildness and...
Jane Teresa Anderson (24:49)
Yeah.
Lian (24:52)
Yeah, that's just think they perhaps feel like they've got that kind of blend of looking at it from a Chinese astrology perspective. I feel like there's just something really, ⁓ they've got the pig-like aspects of being say like charming and into pleasure and embodied, but with that kind of wild aspect too.
Jane Teresa Anderson (25:15)
Yes, so that's a really lovely feeling, you know, and I'll often look at animals and dreams as being, well, I look at everything and everyone in a dream as being an aspect of the dreamer. So I would tend to look at animals as being deeply unconscious parts of ourselves that we are just getting to know, because once we get to know these parts of ourselves, they tend to appear as people in our dreams. But before they take the shape of people, they take the shape more of an energy, more of an animal.
Lian (25:23)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (25:42)
So it's interesting that you love a wild boar. You can basically see that it's, you've described it in different words as ⁓ a domestic creature that's actually not domestic, it's wild. And could possibly boar into things as well, I don't know. And yet you think, so why were you running away from it? Why weren't you going, look, it's this lovely boar. It's going to give it a hug. You were running away. I would say at that point, there was some thing in your dream where you were,
Lian (25:55)
Mm, yes.
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (26:12)
⁓ running away from or not particularly facing or concerned about a wildness within you that might otherwise be domestic but really wants to be wild, but maybe not that wild. Maybe I've got to tone that down a bit. I'm not sure. I'm not going run away from that. And then you're feeling threatened by it as well. So I'm feeling threatened by this wilder side of myself. And it's actually a side of myself that's magnificent and I love it. And is it boring? I don't know. Or does it bore into things?
Lian (26:27)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (26:41)
I'm a bit threatened by it. And then all of a sudden, it's another energy joins it. So another more unconscious energy of yourself, which is a lion. So how would you describe what a lion means to you?
Lian (26:55)
Well, there's a lot there with lions. So.
What occurs to me in this moment is in childhood, I loved the books by C.S. Lewis, so Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. And I didn't know at the time consciously that the lion was meant to be Christ. I didn't know that when I was reading them. I didn't have a religious upbringing, but I think there was a subconscious sense of Aslan being this really beautiful, loving divine energy. I knew that. My friend and I, we almost like created this cult of Aslan. I had this beautiful little lion kind of statue that we had created all these like rituals around. ⁓ So that's kind of my initial memory of how I used to relate to lions. And then I suppose in adulthood, I've retained some of that sense as well as the kind of sense of sovereignty and ⁓
Jane Teresa Anderson (27:45)
Fantastic.
Lian (28:01)
different ways, like symbolically, they link to these notions of regality and sovereignty.
Jane Teresa Anderson (28:08)
Yeah, so okay, so lovely. So putting all that together, the energy that comes into your dream has some, is spiritual, has a divine essence to it, and is also ritualistic because of all the rituals you did as a child with the little lion things. So it's like I frightened and worried and feel threatened by this magnificent boar-like energy. There's this wildness that I've got, this wild domestic that I've probably got to keep under control of it, I'm not sure, but. When I blend it, because there's the sex between the lion and the... When I blend it, when I integrate it with this more spiritual approach, with this more divine sense of being, with this more sense of ritual, it's quite funny. And there's an element of relief about this. And there's not only an element about relief with the weeing, but it's actually a really down-to-earth kind of relief. It grounds me. It feels good. So I would then say, you know...
Lian (29:01)
you
Jane Teresa Anderson (29:04)
that those were the kind of energies I would feel that your dream was processing and that they were energies that you may not have been so aware of in the day or two before because they were animal shaped, they were more unconscious, but they're coming into consciousness. So I'd be saying, what were you doing, given the male energy, what were you doing in the outer world in the day or two beforehand? What were you doing for business? What were you doing in the kind of left brain approach that really was feeling that you were feeling threatened by this, yeah, but I've got this other, I've got this wild energy. But if I bring in the spiritual and the ritual, yeah, it's other kind of workout. That was the angle I would be coming from. But always, always, always, as we were doing there, me trying to find out from you and you telling me what your personal association with the lion and the boar is, not what the archetypal energy of it is. Is that, yeah.
Lian (29:39)
Hmm.
Mmm.
That really makes sense. Thank you. Yes, a beautiful, really, really beautiful example. Thank you for exploring that one with me. Because I think there's so much in you being, you doing that, that helps listeners to understand what you meant when you were saying working directly and personally with things. So do you see there can be these
Jane Teresa Anderson (30:09)
Yeah.
Lian (30:17)
collective themes that, mean, certainly the work you do where you've done that with lots of people over time, do you notice that there are kind of collective themes that we can be dreaming of? And ⁓ I guess added to that, how huge changes in the world, particularly with technology, how they have affected our kind of dreaming en masse.
Jane Teresa Anderson (30:42)
Yeah, lovely questions. So first of all, of course, we're all human. Well, at a certain level, we're all human. And so therefore, we all experience similar things. We all experience at some stage during our life loss. We all experience joy. We all experience fear. There are major things that we all experience. And these come up in our dreams. So you can say, A lot of people might bring me a dream and it will be a dream of loss. Let's say, you know, the very obvious one at various points in our lives, we all lose our sense of direction. Oh, where am I going? What do I want to do in life? We lose our sense of direction. And, you know, on a simple level that may present as a dream where you're in a strange city and you can't find your way anywhere. There's no signs. You don't know what you're doing. And it's obviously this is dream about finding your direction.
Lian (31:20)
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (31:32)
So you could say that's a universal thing because we all have periods of time when we've lost our direction, but every dream that somebody brings to me at a time when they have lost their direction will be different. A thousand people might bring a dream about being lost in a city, but the elements of each dream will be different because they will refer to that individual person's life. And those can help to ⁓ help that person find out, why are you lost at the moment? What is it that you can't see?
Lian (31:52)
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (32:01)
And let's go back to the past, which is also indicated in your dream and find out what's happening here. So yeah, universal themes, but presenting as different kinds of dreams. And then of course, yeah, to your other thing, how does the rapidly changing world we live in affect our dreams? Same, same. You know, if I spend a day or you spend a day worrying about whether AI is going to remove all our clients, because everyone's just going to ask their AI chat box person.
Lian (32:11)
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (32:31)
then you and I are going to probably go to sleep and dream about that. We're not going to necessarily dream about the chat box person, but we might. But we might then also dream about some other symbolic great thing, not with lions and boars, but something else that's going to, you know, take away from us or take over. so yeah, so our dreams may come up with symbols that do seem to look like the changes that taking place in life today, AI, war, famine, whatever.
But they're just as likely to appear far more symbolically and we have to work through them to say yeah But what's really happening down here? That's and it's all at the end of the day about how am I? Processing the fact of AI the fact of war the fact of whatever how am I processing it? What? How can I change to accommodate this? What can I do about this? How does it affect my the way that I see the world? How does it affect the way that I respond to the world?
Lian (33:02)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Hmm, yes, that really makes sense. Actually link to that. I've noticed, and I don't think this is just me. I think when I've ⁓ spoken to other people, this is quite common. When I've dreamed of using my phone, it's always a real struggle where it's like, it feels like you can't quite, you know, like, ⁓ my gosh, how do I get into WhatsApp? I can't read the messages.
Jane Teresa Anderson (33:46)
Yes, yes.
Lian (33:54)
I don't think I've had a dream ever where I've successfully used a mobile phone. It's like you're blind drunk and just like, stabbing randomly at things and nothing's working. Why is that?
Jane Teresa Anderson (33:58)
Me neither.
I think, I don't know, but I think it's because I think it's to do with again the prefrontal cortex being switched off. I don't think we're capable of logical things like remembering a phone number or handling something technical in our dreams. I use apart, mean, they are endlessly frustrating to realise you're dreaming, aren't they? Because the phone just gets more complicated.
Lian (34:18)
yes.
Mm. Mm-hmm.
You
Yeah
Jane Teresa Anderson (34:34)
But I have actually used that and suggest to other people to use it as a cue that you're dreaming to wake up to a lucid dream. several times during the day, pick up your phone. Is it working fine? Yeah, isn't this great? My phone's working fine. Isn't this great? My phone's working fine. And then you'll find yourself in a dream, go, my phone is not working fine. ⁓ am I dreaming? And take it as a cue that you're dreaming. You can jump into a lucid dream. But I think it's as simple as that. We are just not good.
Lian (34:41)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (35:02)
And funnily enough, our dreams can come up with amazingly accurate numbers that indicate things. I've noticed dreams can come up with things like, well, how old was that baby? Oh, it's about six and a half months old. OK, so what's been in your life for six and a half months? Or I picked up this thing and it had the number 33, not 33, it had the number 21, 3 on it. OK, well, randomly, what happened on the 21st of March? The numbers in our dreams can be really, really precise.
Lian (35:08)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (35:31)
But get asked to actually do numbers or do technical things in our dreams. Not possible. ⁓
Lian (35:41)
My mind doesn't do numbers in my waking life. So yeah, it doesn't have a hope in my dream world. Oh, gosh, we're speeding on through this time together. I think you're gonna have to come back for a part two because I feel like we've only just scratched the surface of everything I wanted to talk to you about. But coming to...
Jane Teresa Anderson (35:44)
you
you
Lian (36:02)
working with dreams. we've talked, you know, obviously that begins by looking at the dream, you know, just as we did briefly with mine there. There's a couple of questions actually in this. What might be changing in the telling of a dream? As in what happens, you know, up until now, the dream was between me and, you know, the note that I wrote.
Now it shifted because I've spoken it aloud and I've shared it with you and actually all of our listeners too In the telling of a dream what might be happening then and then how would you suggest that someone then kind of looks at those themes and You know what what might they do with them in their lives to you know, do the healing do the integration that's being suggested
Jane Teresa Anderson (36:36)
Yes.
Yes.
so many answers for that. One thing that I always find quite fascinating is that when a person is talking to me about a dream, because whenever I start a consultation, ask, tell me the dream in all the detail that you can remember, they'll often say, ⁓ yeah, that's right. And then this happens. So they're remembering things that they didn't have in their notes. And then sometimes they might stop halfway through a dream and say,
Lian (37:13)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (37:21)
I don't know why this has just occurred to me, but I just feel I've got to tell you that yesterday I went and saw this and then go off some other story. And I think it's that when we are talking about or immersed in a dream, our unconscious mind joins in and offers more clues as to how it relates to our lives. So that's one of the first things that happens when you take out of the journal and either start to speak about it or write about it or talk to yourself about it. You're in that space, headspace where your unconscious mind contributes and joins the conversation and adds.
Lian (37:27)
Mm.
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (37:51)
adds more detail and adds more insight. So that's really important. If you haven't looked...
Lian (37:56)
That's so true. Likeneven when with mine, I know that I love wild boars, but it wasn't until I was telling you the story that I suddenly realised like, oh, it's not like wild boars are neutral to me. I actually really love wild boars. Yeah, that's, yes, really good point.
Jane Teresa Anderson (38:07)
Yes. Yeah. You brought that otherwise animal unconscious energy more into being and it expressed itself more through you. And then also, of course, if you're talking to someone or with someone about a dream, that person's input, whether they're actually asking you questions or whether they're just responding in different kind of ways, that is also shaping how you feel about the story that you're telling. And then, you know, one of the things that I do is that
Lian (38:15)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (38:36)
I will, once I've got a firm yes from the person that what we're talking about does relate to their life, then with their permission, I'll start to get our conversation to change the dream. for, to reduce it to a really simple dream. If the dream is saying, I've got this little plant growing, but it's gone a bit yellow and it's kind of wilted.
I'm keeping this really simple. And if we've related that to something in their life where they're losing vitality or not giving the energy that they could to something, then rather than talk about that, we'll start to talk about, so, you know, if that plant is now actually, look, look, it's getting greener and it's actually got more water drawing it up, look, as we're watching, it's growing taller. And what's the energy that's coming from it? And we are changing the symbol and what it means by talking about it together.
Lian (39:32)
Hmm
Jane Teresa Anderson (39:33)
And because that symbol came from the dreamer's mind, what we're actually doing is talking to the dreamer's unconscious mind and reprogramming it. We're saying, whatever makes you respond in the world that is causing you to lack vitality or not to feed something or nourish yourself, we're now telling you that's not the way to go. We are actually going to nourish this. We are going to grow this plant. We are going to grow it. So that's another thing that can happen in the conversation.
Lian (39:55)
Mmm...
Jane Teresa Anderson (40:01)
by agreement between the two of you, we change the symbols, we might change the narrative, and we're basically, that's where the healing, that's where the integration, that's where the change is happening.
Lian (40:06)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm. Yes, that really makes sense. Hmm. I'm just, yes, I think we can fit in another question before we start to move to close. Something that, actually, is about to say the very thing that I'm about to say, in, was about to say something I hear over and over again is people having repeating dreams. I repeatedly hear about people having repetitive dreams.
Jane Teresa Anderson (40:41)
I love it.
Lian (40:41)
I'd love to hear your take on that because you do have, although there are things that people already know about repetitive dreams, I have a sense you might have a fresh take given you have got a fresh take on many of these things. What's your take on that?
Jane Teresa Anderson (41:01)
So I start usually by being very simple and straightforward about it and saying, well, if our dream, given that our dreams are starting by processing your experiences of the last one to two days, every time you have this dream, it's because something keeps coming up. And every time you have that thing come up in waking life, your brain goes, ⁓ I know the dream that goes with this. So partly you can say, when did the dream first begin? Because that's when the issue first began. And whenever the dream comes up,
Lian (41:22)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (41:29)
Just look at the last one or two days because there's something coming up that keeps triggering this dream. So I start there and I say, well, know, some amazing but rare recurring dreams have wonderful endings and they're resolved. But most recurring dreams end like, and I'm still trying to catch the plane and I can't pack all my bags, know, the unresolved endings. So those recurring dreams are reflecting situations in your waking life where you are unable to resolve an issue.
Lian (41:34)
Hmm.
Hmm. Yes. Yeah.
Jane Teresa Anderson (41:59)
unable to move on in some sense. those, although they can be quite boring dreams to look at, they are sometimes the most powerful ones to begin with because they help the dreamer to understand where they're stuck in life, what keeps repeating, what their dreaming mind is not able to resolve for them, usually because it's defaulting to a childhood foundational belief or a trauma related foundational belief, and then work with that to break it through. So that's where I come from recurring dreams.
Lian (42:08)
Mmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (42:28)
And if they are sometimes of the resolved magnificent type, then maybe they tap on the shoulder, know, whatever's happening in your waking life, you're not noticing this amazing thing that could be happening. And then it comes up again, because yet again, look at the last couple of days, what were you ignoring? What were you not seeing? Why were you not responding in this magnificent way that you could? So I come at it from that angle.
Lian (42:42)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yes, I love that. I really love the kind of real simplicity and sort of first principles nature of your work. And I mean that with real respect and appreciation, not that it is simple, but yeah, it's really beautiful. Go back to something you said right at the beginning, and I know these were just examples, but I still feel like there was something in the example you gave where you as a child were dreaming of things that
Jane Teresa Anderson (43:02)
Yes, I accept that, yeah.
Lian (43:20)
you hadn't experienced, I think you mentioned tidal waves and snakes, what's your sense as to why that might be the case?
Jane Teresa Anderson (43:26)
Yes. think because they're very primal, know, the tidal wave has that feeling, you know, the common dream, you presented for me, which does for a lot of people is like, I'm never going to get to escape from this huge overwhelming thing. And I think that comes up for a lot of people, particularly children, when it's like, there's a lot of emotional stuff going on, you're feeling overwhelmed, you just don't know what to do. And that kind of sense that water moves, like emotions move, a highly emotional dream.
Lian (43:39)
Mmm
Jane Teresa Anderson (43:57)
The other two, the one with wolves and the one with snakes, I come down to again the animal things. And for a child, it can be hard to really work things out consciously, but you are very aware of deep emotions and feelings, which are sometimes unconscious, which you don't understand, which present more as animals in the dream. So although I hadn't watched TV already, maybe I'd heard the story of, I don't know, I don't know looking back.
Lian (43:57)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (44:25)
a fairy tale with a snake in it or something. I don't know what I thought about snakes. I knew they were frightening. I knew I was frightened of the snakes in my dream. So for me, they represented something that was frightening. And the wolves, to me, there are lots of possibilities. At the very base level in that dream, I was walking along the road and I reach an obstacle and that is something that is extremely frightening. So on one level, the child can be just facing what all children face.
Lian (44:36)
Mm-hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (44:54)
is sheer terror of everyday life where everything is so different. ⁓ You know, on another level, being brought up in England in the era that I was, there was a lot of, I guess, know, ⁓ barking at young children. I'm trying to be very kind about the way I'm saying things here. And then, yeah, another level, my dad once
Lian (45:13)
yes.
Jane Teresa Anderson (45:22)
brought home a dog for us. He thought it would be really good to bring home this dog that someone at the pub, think, had said, you know, I will actually have someone at the pub said my Alsatian dog, which looks like a wolf, has just swallowed half a brick and I can't handle him. And my dad probably had a couple of beers and said, Oh, I'll take them home. We've got some kids. would love that. So my memory of that is being about five years old and the back door opening and my dad coming in with his wolf, this howling wolf.
Lian (45:34)
Yes.
Jane Teresa Anderson (45:52)
And I jumped onto my mum's back and said, I'm never, ever coming down. So I don't know, because I've only remembered all this looking back. I don't know which came first, the dream or that experience. So that experience would have fed the wolf image into my dreams as well. because I wasn't around or understanding my dreams at the time, I can only wonder looking back. I think that was, think,
Lian (46:05)
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (46:18)
children's dreams are usually less mundane because they're really struggling with everything with not knowing who they are and what their position is in this world and trying to deal with all the energies out there in the world and more specifically the energies inside me. How do I feel about this? How do I handle all these emotions? Can I answer the wolf back? Will I get eaten alive by this person, not this wolf?
Lian (46:21)
Mmm.
Yes,yeah, yes, yeah. So your sense is that when we dream of things that we, and as you say, particularly as children that we haven't yet experienced consciously, it probably comes in those kind of forms like fairy tales or inference, like dog wolf.
Jane Teresa Anderson (46:44)
Yeah.
Lian (47:07)
as opposed to a kind of primal memory, as it were, that we're kind of tapping into because our, yes.
Jane Teresa Anderson (47:13)
Yes.
Yeah, that's my sense of it. As ⁓ individuals, we are processing our individual experiences. When we grow up and become older and wiser, we might see life on a completely different level and completely different plane, become more aware of primal energies or the evolution of life as a whole or our individual parts as small particles of one entire universal being, whatever it is. But as children,
Lian (47:17)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (47:42)
and as teenagers and as young adults, we are processing just what happens to us. How do I feel about this? How do I feel about this? Because I haven't found anyone other than I. This is me. This is me. This is my life. I don't see life on a grander scale. I am processing that. How do I handle that? What kind of picture can I build of me and the life that I'm living in order to try to do it better tomorrow?
Lian (47:50)
Mmm.
Hmm, yes, that really makes sense. And one final question, if you don't mind sharing, is there ⁓ a particular dream that you've had that perhaps you knew at the time or perhaps now looking back, you can see was a really important dream for you in your healing or in your, I mean, you mentioned a couple of dreams you had about, you know, beginning to work with dreams. Are there any others that you like?
Jane Teresa Anderson (48:35)
Yes.
Lian (48:38)
⁓ yes, I can look back and I can see these were really significant dreams for me on my path.
Jane Teresa Anderson (48:45)
Yeah, so many, I can't remember them all, but I'll try and remember one. So many, mean, my life has been led by my dreams. know, I always, even when I didn't understand them, I would consider those dreams and think about them before anything else, trying to decide which one to bring. There have been just so many. I think one that I… like to tell, but I guess I like to tell it more from an angle of dream alchemy, is I, let me just try to remember the dream.
I was walking along the road and there's this great big horse, like we're doing animals today, there's a great big horse and it charges past me and it gets to the end of it and it charges back, it charges that way and it charges that and I'm absolutely terrified because I was terrified of horses when I was little. And then when I woke up, I thought about it and thought, you know, well, you know, I shouldn't really be terrified of this horse. I've got it. It's an energy. It's part of me. I've got to do something about this. And I thought to myself, that can be me. I can charge ahead and do that and then charge that and charge, charge, charge. And in the dream, I noticed this horse that was charging to the end of the road and charging back, kept missing the turning that went into this lovely field with all this hay that it could eat. And I was thinking.
I wonder, do I do that? Am I missing out on an opportunity that's very nourishing for me because I'm so busy doing this, doing that? Somebody once said to me, you walk so fast that I'm sitting at a coffee shop and I see you and I can't call you ever because you've already passed. That was when I was in my 20s. I'm a million miles from that now. That is just so not me now. I recognise that it has been.
Lian (50:17)
you
Jane Teresa Anderson (50:27)
So what I do when I woke up with that dream, I'm keeping out a lot of the big detail and the big work on it, keeping it to the basics. But when I woke up, I did dream alchemy. So I thought, I need to integrate this energy in myself that's running up and down. I need to integrate it and maybe try to get into that field. I'm going to, I'm being awake. I'm awake and I'm going to visualise getting on top of that horse and I'm going to calm it down. And I'm going to maybe try to get it to get into that field.
So I did that. And as I did it, I was still really frightened of the horse. But as it came closer and closer and I could touch it in my visualisation, I thought, I'm both scared stiff of that horse. And I'm also totally in admiration of it. I'm totally excited by it. And I got on the horse. And where I was expecting then to have to kind of do some kind of amazing horsemanship that I don't have and kind of calm it down, it just straight away kind of just went,
Lian (51:20)
Hehehehehe
Jane Teresa Anderson (51:25)
that's good then. And we just ambled along, even though I was controlling the visualisation, kind of took part. Just ambled along, took a right turn, went into the field, some hay. And what happened in my life after that was that I did slow down and I did notice more opportunities and was in particular one opportunity that I had that was more nourishing for me that I had missed. And simply doing that visualisation over the next very small amount of time, I think it was within a week, I thought.
Lian (51:29)
Hmm.
Jane Teresa Anderson (51:54)
you know what? And I took that opportunity. But not only that, I was able to kind of channel that not a fearsome energy, but a really strong, powerful energy that I could direct that didn't have to be let loose and charged along by itself. I could actually decide what to do about it. So that's a very ⁓ watered down version of what I did. But it is an example of a dream that
Lian (52:10)
you
Jane Teresa Anderson (52:22)
didn't really deliver a solution in the dream, but it delivered what I needed to know about myself in order to work with it to get the solution that I needed.
Lian (52:34)
Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah, really, really. It's quite interesting. was noticing as you were describing the horse, was like, it's quite akin actually to how I was feeling about the wild boar that there's simultaneously this admiration and yet also fear. Yeah. This has been ⁓ such, such a pleasure to have this time with you. Before we close, where can listeners find out more about you and your work, which I'm sure they will.
Jane Teresa Anderson (52:49)
Yes.
Lian (53:01)
and your amazing books, where can they find out all of that?
Jane Teresa Anderson (53:03)
Thank you.
Well, as your listeners are currently listening to a podcast, they might like my podcast, which is called The Dream Show with Jane Theresa Anson. I always have a guest and we always interpret the guest's dream and I never know what the dream is until they tell me the dream. And that show has been going for 16 years. We're in our 17th year now. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah, it's been going for ages.
Lian (53:21)
Wow, you're even more of a veteran podcaster than me! don't often mention that! I don't often meet people that have been podcasting longer. Wow! Yes!
Jane Teresa Anderson (53:30)
Yeah, started podcasting before it was a thing. But anyway, there's that. And I've got two websites. The main one is JaneTeresa.com and that's Teresa without an H. And that also leads to the other website. The other website is the Dream Academy. And that's my online learning platform where people can go to do basic dream interpretation courses and dream therapy courses. But if you go to JaneTeresa.com, you can find out about my courses, you can find out about how to do a private consultation with me, obviously by Zoom. And all my books, I've got eight, no, I've lost count, seven books on dreams and dreaming. And last year I wrote my first fiction, which I had a real blast writing, thoroughly enjoyed. It is about an animal. And I may, the one thing I did want to do when I wrote the fiction was I wanted to write a book that wasn't non-fiction, that I could write whatever I wanted, and that didn't mention dreams.
Lian (54:26)
Hehehehehe
Jane Teresa Anderson (54:27)
And it was really hard, but I kept Dreams totally out of it. And I
Jane Teresa Anderson (54:31)
really enjoyed it. It is an allegory, but I really enjoyed writing that. And also on my website, there are hundreds of blogs, because the website's been going for a long time too. So loads of information at janeteresa.com. Courses, services, and the podcast, The Dream Show.
Lian (54:49)
wow. Goodness me. I'm really in awe of you and your work. yeah, again, it's just it's I don't know if I've ever met someone who's been podcasting longer, but you've been. Yes, it does. Now, now having a sense of you doesn't surprise me at all. ⁓ Incredible.
Jane Teresa Anderson (54:54)
You
Lian (55:08)
Thank you so much for everything you do. Really. This has been such a joy.
Jane Teresa Anderson (55:12)
Thank you, Lian I really enjoyed your chat and I love your dream.
Lian (55:16)
Thank you.
Lian (55:20)
What a fascinating show. my gosh. I'm already a big fan of Janes. Here are my favourite parts. Work with dreams in this way can land more powerfully because it begins with the dreamer's own experience and association rather than symbolic layers that don't always match our own experience or way that we see the world.
Speaking our dream aloud can immediately shift the pattern. New clues rise to the surface and the emotional truth is felt and becomes unmistakably clear. Dream Alchemy demonstrates how changing a dream image, even in our imagination, can create a tangible shift.
So if you'd like to hop on over to the show, the links are at BeMythical.com/podcast/528 And as you heard me say earlier, if you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path in this crazy modern world, and we benefit from guidance, kinship and support, come join us at Unio, the community for wild sovereign souls. You can discover more and join us by hopping over to BeMythical.com/unio or click the link in the description.
And if you don't want to miss out on next week's episode, head on over to your podcasting app or platform of choice, including YouTube, and click that follow or subscribe button. That way you'll get each episode delivered straight to your device as soon as it comes out auto-magically.
Thank you so much for listening. You've been wonderful. I'm sending you all my love. I'll catch you again next week. And until then, go be mythical.