The land, the story, the soul: How to reclaim what was lost (transcript)

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Episode Transcript:

Lian (00:00)

The land, story and soul. Perhaps it's in the weave of all three together that we might find what has been lost. Hello, my beautiful mythical old souls and a huge warm welcome back. In this episode, I'm joined by the wonderful Stephanie McKay. Stephanie is a mythologist, wilderness guide and cultural craftswoman devoted to the long, slow work of remembering how to belong. To land, to lineage, to story and to each other.

Together we explore the deep woven threads that bind our personal myths to the land beneath our feet. We journey through the ways in which stories live within us, ancient seeds waiting for the right conditions to sprout. Stephanie shares her own path led her from disconnection back into a living relationship with land and story and how myth can offer us both memory and medicine. At the heart of this conversation is a reference for the slow relational work of remembering tending to the land beneath us, listening for the stories that call us home, and understanding that these are not separate acts, but parts of the same ancient dance between earth and soul.

And before we jump into all of that good stuff, I'd love to share about my upcoming Crucible for Women, The Crimson Quest. It's a mythical journey of reclamation of the powerful, sacred relationship with our menstrual cycle. You can find out more and register your interest to be one of the first to know when I open it for enrollment at bemythical.com slash crimson. And if you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path in this crazy modern world and would benefit from guidance, support and kinship, come join our Academy of the Soul, UNIO. You can find out more at bemythical.com slash UNIO or click the link in the description.

And now back to this week's episode. Let's dive in.

Lian (01:58)

Hello Stephanie, welcome to the show.

Stephanie MacKay (02:01)

Hello, Lian Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Lian (02:04)

Oh, what a pleasure. this is for me. I was just pondering as I was refilling my water. I was like, this is a real treat to have someone who has that love of the land and of story that I do. And yeah, what a treat to be able to just dedicate the next 45 minutes or so to diving into two of my favorite things all put together in one. So I can't wait.

Stephanie MacKay (02:34)

Great, me too, thank you.

Lian (02:37)

So let's,

let's begin with your story, your own personal myth. And the work you do today isn't something that perhaps you imagined you'd end up doing. probably wasn't like, I often think like I didn't even know my job existed back when I was a child. So what brought you here and

Stephanie MacKay (02:43)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lian (02:57)

Talking about childhood, I often love to hear whether there were kind of aspects of what you do now that when you connect the dots looking backwards, you can see where seated in childhood. So feel free to kind of start a bit further back than you perhaps otherwise would.

Stephanie MacKay (03:14)

Okay, beautiful. I love that you, you know, started off with, we could never imagine what our, you know, offering to this world is, or would be or will be. Because that's for sure the case with me. I never thought, I'm going to be a mythologist, I'm going to, you know, work with stories and land and initiation. ⁓ so definitely, it's been quite an amazing path to get here.

Lian (03:26)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (03:43)

And there's definitely, yeah, when I look back, the dots connect and it's actually so beautiful to be at the time in life where I can see the dots connecting because there is a long period of time where I think, you know, for many of us, but certainly for me, where I didn't see the dots connecting and I just felt like I was, you know. wildly all over the place. But for sure, when I look back to my childhood, I was definitely deeply connected with the land very early on. I think story, my sort of first awareness of story being a big part of my life was more in my teens. And I would just I dove into all kinds of stories that my grandmother was reading or my mother was reading. And ⁓ most of the other kids my age weren't reading these stories. ⁓ So bringing that, ⁓ I think the immense gift of time on the land and free roaming time on the land as a kid.

Lian (05:00)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (05:01)

⁓ deeply informed me. And, know, I also think that it saved my life in a lot of ways. ⁓ I didn't fit into the public school system. I didn't fit into, you know, the dominant culture. And really, you know, ultimately it was summers, my family would go out to the land. My grandparents had a place. about six hours outside of Vancouver, BC. And we would spend summers there and that the land really, it was the only place that I felt ⁓ belonging. And I actually say that I believe that that land birthed my soul. And I, you know, I was born in Vancouver, but my soul was birthed out on this land. And ⁓ so it really imprinted this deep,

Lian (05:48)

you

Stephanie MacKay (05:58)

knowing that there was something more ⁓ to life, there was something more to our spiritual connection. ⁓ I think as a kid, I didn't realize that some of the experiences that I had were what we would call, you know, spiritual connections. But looking back, it's very clear that that was there. ⁓ And then that land was actually sold when I was in my early 20s. ⁓ My grandparents sold that land and that was really the point in my life where I could trace back, that was the beginning of my deep soul descent ⁓ because it felt like a severing of myself. It's about like I lost a huge part of myself. And the grief was so huge, but...

Lian (06:44)

Mm.

Stephanie MacKay (06:54)

The grief for the loss of that land was not something that my family or the culture really knew how to understand or hold or support. And so I really just internalised the grief ⁓ and then ran away from it and did a major shift in my life and spent the next 12 years sitting in front of a computer.

16 hours a day, severed from the land, severed from my soul, ⁓ in the heart of various different cities in Canada as a media artist. And ⁓ then had this lightning bolt moment at age 27, which is very common, the Saturn return, but had this lightning bolt moment of what am I doing? This is not my path. I'm a nature person. ⁓ I also say I somewhere in there, I did a degree in literature, which just felt like I was just cruising through and didn't really know what I was doing and just picked literature because I knew I could do it. But of course, that has deep meaning now at this point in my life. ⁓ Yeah, so it was at that

Lian (08:14)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (08:20)

that lightning bolt moment, was a deep journey to return. I ⁓ went into a deep depression at the time and really, really struggled for a long time and ⁓ found my way back to the land. ⁓ eventually through my studies with Martin Prechtel, I found my way back to story and

it really wasn't until about five years ago that story and land and my soul really came to understand each other and ⁓ know that this was what was being asked of me. And it just, is absolutely beautiful and amazing how the stories keep showing up in my life, asking to be known, asking to be remembered.

Lian (08:59)

Hmmmm ⁓

Stephanie MacKay (09:16)

And that's really what is guiding me at this point is the stories themselves.

Lian (09:23)

gosh, there's so much in what you've just shared. There's part of me that wants to just kind of just dive in and to, you know, pick all these different strands, but I really do want to have the conversation we plan to have. I will allow myself one little question before we go there. Or not so little. Either back then or now looking...

Would you say there was a story that was guiding your way back to the land and back to story? Even if like maybe you were conscious of it then, or maybe when you look back, you realised like, perhaps it was outside of my conscious awareness, but I can see there was a myth calling me back even then.

Stephanie MacKay (10:12)

You know, it's really interesting that you asked that because I don't think I've ever thought about it that way. you know, ultimately I don't know. And what has popped into my head is I remember in university, I mostly didn't enjoy my time in university. I spent most of my time daydreaming about what I saw in the stories and then not seeing that reflected back in the academic world that I was in. ⁓ But there was one ⁓ collection of stories by Angela Carter, and I can't remember the name of the book, but she did a, I think it was a retelling, which at this point in my life, I have a different feeling of retellings, but ⁓ she did a retelling of ⁓ Little Red Riding Hood, and it just, blew me away and it went so deep ⁓ that it must have been, there must have been some thread there that ⁓ was a guiding, you know, thread for what was to come after that whole stage.

Lian (11:26)

Mmm.

Hmm. And would you share again, I know that we need to back away from this, I'm too fascinated to do that quite yet. What would you say, like, what was it in that now looking back that perhaps was speaking to you in that story of Red Riding Hood?

Stephanie MacKay (11:47)

Well, gosh, really was not planning on talking about this, but it was actually. Yeah, great. It was Eros. There was, I remember Angela Carter was talking about this thread of Eros through Little Red Riding Hood. And. ⁓

Lian (11:53)

That's always my favourite conversations to have, the ones that someone hasn't had before.

Stephanie MacKay (12:13)

And Eros as life force, I'm not talking about sexual energy, but Eros as life force, as this deep bonding ecstasy really with the land and with the stories in the land, that that's what captured me. that became when I did actually leave my video career, my 12 year relationship ended, my...

Lian (12:17)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (12:42)

career, my 12 year or 13 year career ended. You know, I was living in a new place. It was a complete reset in my life. This, you know, immense upheaval of profound connection, which I understood to be Eros. ⁓ the main force of my soul descent was this profound connection to Eros. And so

Lian (13:11)

Mmm. Wow.

Stephanie MacKay (13:12)

There you

Lian (13:15)

So let's begin edging our way towards the topic that we had planned to talk about. I guess first, this is something that I've talked about with many different people and I love to hear ⁓ different feelings on this. Why do you see that perhaps now in particular stories are so potent, so needed. Why? Why story? Why do they provide something to us that perhaps can't be found elsewhere?

Stephanie MacKay (13:54)

Mm-hmm. I think because stories are the carriers of our ancestral wisdom, our ancestral teachings, knowledge, our ancestral culture. And there, I refer to them as seed jars. There, you know, there's this very old ancient seed saving, which there's many beautiful people doing it still today. but where we have these seed jars, the seeds have also that ancestral memory in them. our land-based cultures in Europe for settlers and all around the world, we've been so severed from it. And there's a deep spiritual, cultural longing. ⁓ that a lot of us carry, I would say most of us, but to varying degrees of awareness ⁓ and strength. And I think that's growing as we've sort of gone further away from an intact culture, the actual longing to ⁓ regenerate that intact culture is getting stronger and stronger and stronger.

or the fleeing away from it is the grief of the losses getting stronger and stronger. And so where do we turn? And because we can't turn to, there's, of course there's cultural appropriation and there's, that's a complicated mix of...

Lian (15:22)

Hmm

Stephanie MacKay (15:45)

emotions, history, et cetera. It's just a complex conversation, but to turn to our own ancestry, our own stories, and even the stories of all of Indo-Europe, they're holding a beautiful memory that it has not been lost. It's still in there.

It's very hidden, there's lots of layers over top of it, but we can turn to our stories and remember this beautiful way of being in relationship with ⁓ land, culture, self, other, community, ⁓ spirit, ⁓ I said the holy, it's all right there. And so I think that because the stories are carrying that memory,

It's right there for us to return to or remember.

Lian (16:47)

Hmm, beautiful. And that takes us actually really beautifully to our conversation around working with both the land we're on, the land we live on, ⁓ and stories and how they don't always kind of like, we're not always living on land that are the stories of our particular ancestry.

Stephanie MacKay (16:48)

Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Lian (17:17)

And using that very, you know, perfect metaphor that you just spoke about in terms of the seed jar.

What have you seen about what's required for the seeds of our ancestry to take root on different land? Because ultimately, I guess that's what we're talking about, isn't there something of that, you know, it needs to flourish in this land, you in, you you were talking about that kind of like sort of constellation of your soul, the stories and the land. I guess that's, that's what's happening for each of us. So what do we need to do to be able to have them seed?

Stephanie MacKay (17:47)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lian (17:55)

on land that again, there's already a task for those of us that, ⁓ you know, for me, I'm ⁓ British, live on British land. I could just work with the stories of this land. And yet I notice that I'm drawn often to other stories too. So there is still that kind of complexity for me, but not quite so much as say, for example, someone in your position. So. Yeah, it's a very complex topic, but let's, let's begin. What have you seen, ⁓ are things that we need to pay attention to?

Stephanie MacKay (18:31)

Great question. ⁓ I think first

I have found it to be very important and helpful to ⁓ not just look at the stories of my own ancestry because the memory is very hidden and we have what I call vestiges of the memory within the stories. To use another metaphor, it's a little bit like puzzle pieces and the puzzle pieces have been scattered all over Europe or Indo-Europe.

Lian (19:02)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (19:07)

one story may hold one puzzle piece or two or three puzzle pieces, and then another story will hold another few puzzle pieces. And so it is hugely helpful to, for me at least, to look at the whole spread of Indo-Europe culture and stories to help me piece together regenerative culture. So I'll just start with that.

it for me, it definitely does go beyond just my own ancestral stories. ⁓ I have my last name's MacKay I have, you know, Scottish, Irish, English ancestry. ⁓ So then how do I hold this? How do I engage? How do I, you know, be in this relationship here in Canada? I'm on the traditional lands of the Stz’uminus people, ⁓ the Hul’q’umi’num I'm speaking, they're within the Coast Salish ⁓ group.

Lian (19:40)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (20:06)

And I have to also bring my own stories here. And what is so amazing is that because the stories have a spiritual origins and a spiritual existence, that they can still be alive here within me. And how do I bring them alive? ⁓ I know I'm mixing metaphors, but I'm going to jump back to the seed jar. Seeds can, lay dormant for, some seeds can lay dormant for hundreds of years, ⁓ waiting for the conditions to sprout. My, my teacher, Martin Prechtel you know, there was a very rainy ⁓ season. He lives in ⁓ New Mexico in the high plateau desert.

Lian (20:44)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (21:02)

and they had an incredibly rainy spring. And he said there were flowers that were sprouting or blossoming that hadn't been seen in 200 years. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. So it's the same. Cultural seeds are exactly the same. Is there waiting for the right conditions? They live within us and they live within the stories. They're just waiting for the right conditions in order to

Lian (21:11)

wow, gosh, that's giving me chills.

you

Stephanie MacKay (21:31)

to blossom or sprout. So then that leaves the question of, what are the right conditions? How do we create the right conditions? Which of course is a long, ⁓ we could do hours upon just that one question. But essentially, it's pulling in, reading some stories and then lifting up some of the elements of the story.

being in ceremony, being in conversation, ⁓ giving offerings to the stories, giving offerings to the land, learning about the origins of the stories. There's so much that we can do in order to create the conditions for that ⁓ memory to sprout again. ⁓ But ultimately, that is what I am trying to do, what I'm in the process of. Well for sure dedicating my life to is creating those conditions again for all of us, for those of us who ⁓ have been severed from our cultural origins ⁓ to regrow in relationship with the land that we're on.

Lian (22:48)

Hmm. Something ⁓ just occurred to me as you were talking that could be an interesting aspect to look at here where I was, was pondering how I think it's become more, may just be within my kind of, this is the bit that I'm pondering about, about say, is it true or is it just my own bubble that I'm in? I don't know.

Stephanie MacKay (23:16)

Thanks.

Lian (23:17)

But it seems to me that people who are working with myths do seem to have this understanding of ⁓ place, know, a sense of this is ultimately showing us how ⁓ to be back in relationship with all that's around us, the land itself, the beings of the land, you know, all of the things that we've forgotten in our culture.

Stephanie MacKay (23:38)

Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Lian (23:47)

And that's become so normal for me. I sometimes forget that that's not the only way that we've learned to work with myths. ⁓ but it occurs to me going back to, I guess particularly the work of Jung and those that have come after him, that working in this way with myth, ⁓ isn't always about that. It can be kind of much more sort of individual and not to knock that I think kind of understanding what's going on for us internally is important, but it just occurred to me how, ⁓ got used to those of us that work with myth also to have this orientation of the land and yet that's not always so. And so I wonder if that might be something just to touch on, you know, from your perspective, why do you see that these are vital to come together? That they kind of almost, I'm saying that it's almost one of those things I'm like, it almost feels like I'm sort of talking around something that actually just belongs together and

Stephanie MacKay (24:30)

Thanks.

Lian (24:51)

like you know they are the same thing but in our modern culture we've separated them why do you see that actually they do belong together and always have?

Stephanie MacKay (24:57)

you

Well, my understanding is that myths come from the land, that they are the land, that there actually is, if we look back at, you know, all cultures, there, we cannot separate myth and land, that they are one in the same thing. They're just different way, different expressions of the land. The way they, we hold them, the way they are, ⁓

Lian (25:08)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (25:34)

essentially formed into a story that human beings can understand and can pass on. That's essentially the bridge between the land and human culture, but that it's just a different manifestation of the same thing. So the myth for me literally raise up out of the land and are received from the land. ⁓

Lian (25:50)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (26:00)

then I think why does it work, if we could use that word, why does it work to have myths also understood from a more personal, internal, we could say Jungian or psychological perspective or understanding of the stories? ⁓ I think, yeah, as you say, they're both valuable. I think it works because we also are an individual human is also the entire landscape of the earth, the land. We are also the land. So it's really like micro and macro that we are a small version of we are each an earth body and we are all, you know, bodies of the earth and we heal our bodies, we heal the land, we heal the land, we heal our bodies.

Lian (26:32)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (26:51)

there's this very, again, intimate relationship between our inner landscape and our outer landscape. ⁓ So if we're holding a story, we're holding an understanding of both the land and our own internal landscape system. ⁓ So, and I think to… you know, hold them both in that way, it's another layer of healing because there has been a long, you know, trajectory of separating us from the land. And so, you know, to say, well, if we separate one story, you know, say, this is psychological, and then all this one's from the land. That's, I think, not, it's doing a disservice to the stories, to the land and to ourselves, ⁓ holding both knowing that ⁓ we are a microcosm of the land.

Lian (27:24)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (27:49)

and that the story lives deep within us just as the story lives deep within the land.

Lian (27:56)

Mm. ⁓ that's, ⁓ so, so beautifully expressed. And I think it sort of shines a light on like why they kind of like you say work in quote marks to work them psychologically. Of course they would because they would, but there is, ⁓ a bigger game at play. There is a bigger truth, ⁓ that they are pointing us back to. so.

Stephanie MacKay (28:09)

Mm-hmm.

Thank

Lian (28:26)

Coming back, I don't think we fully, well, as you say, we could probably spend hours just exploring the conditions, but let's spend a bit longer with that, that idea of how do we plant the seeds of story in the land we're in? Like what's required? What's for those conditions?

Stephanie MacKay (28:38)

easy.

Mm-hmm. Well, think one, if we only did this one thing, we would do an immense amount if we just learned the origins, if we actually learned the beings of our land, and then if we learned the beings of the story. So, you know, Lineage is super important in intact cultures. traditional people's lineage is hugely important. And there's a reason why it's, you know, because that is the umbilical cord to our, yeah, to our place of origins, both spiritually, physically, ⁓ and the origins to life. So when we You know, let's say I have a table that I made from the trees that were felled to, you know, build the home that I live in. ⁓ I know there's a whole story. It's okay. It's basically restorying our world. So. I know the story of the table. I know the story of the plants. To know the story of all of the beings around me is then ⁓ re-enlivening my home, re-enlivening my surroundings, and actually creates a seat upon which the story can sit and live. So when

Lian (30:23)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (30:26)

When I don't, and this is an epic task because I don't know, you know, I don't know the origins of the, my, you know, the wood, they make my cupboards or my windows, but ⁓ we just start, you know, have one little place in your home that you know the origins of everything. ⁓ I'm looking at the weaving behind you.

I don't know if you know the origins of it, but I'm imagining that that's woven with wool. So maybe if we can, you know, receive the wool from a neighbouring farmer and then we can weave with that, we know the farmer, we know the sheep, we know the story. Our world around us slowly starts to come alive. ⁓ We're not severed from the origins. And then the story also has a place to live within. ⁓

Lian (31:12)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (31:22)

And then it's the same thing with the story itself is, you know, I'm trying to think of an example in the story, but pick one element of a story. Let's say, you know, an axe, there's an axe in the story. Well, what is the origin of axe? Where, you know, what is the origin of blacksmithing? You know, we go through that whole thing, then all of a sudden this one part of the story has roots. It's really like, you know, growing these roots and ⁓ it brings life to it and the whole thing starts to open up. So, into relationship with the origins of the beings in our lives is a huge, huge part of it. And it's a life undertaking. It's huge.

Lian (31:59)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Yes, yes. mean, one could spend an entire lifetime just doing that with one room, one's house.

Stephanie MacKay (32:21)

Exactly. Yeah.

Just one more thing is that, you know, it may seem impossible and it is ultimately impossible to know the origins of everything around us, but we're just, starting, this is regrowing culture. We're starting to grow a culture of remembering and, you know, knowing the origins of the beings around us. ⁓ so, you know, it's a magnificent undertaking, even if, you know, in our own lifetimes, we actually can't do it.

Lian (32:45)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (32:54)

It's not possible, but we do start the regrowing and laying the foundation for that in generations to come.

Lian (33:04)

I'm really glad you added that because I think with so much of this work of remembering ourselves, there can be a sense of overwhelm or guilt or shame that goes like, I can't possibly do this perfectly enough and enough, enough. Therefore we get frozen and don't do it at all. And I think what you've just said is so, so helpful where it's just like, we can take like tiny bites at it.

Stephanie MacKay (33:18)

This is

⁓ the...

Exactly. Yeah, I think I remember a story that Joanna of Joanna Macy's where when she first or when she was, you know, deep in her, you know, realization or remembering of, you know, the state of our world and the ecological, you know, conditions. And she was overwhelmed and like, can't do this and in my lifetime. And then when she was introduced to, you know, seven generations, it's like,

Lian (33:35)

Hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (34:03)

We do this for seven generations ahead. And each generation does it for the next seven generations. So we're carrying it all together for a time beyond our own. We take small steps in our own lifetime, but it's really ⁓ for generations to come. And one little thread is worthy and beautiful.

Lian (34:27)

Yeah, beautiful. The synchronicity of talking about this from the lens of our houses. I just love the way kind of magic unfolds like this. I had an email from a woman who had written a book about she was an interior designer, but then I guess, started to be called into that sort of deeper soul space of working with spaces.

And she'd actually heard me talk about my love for the house. The house I live in is 400 years old. And so, and it's, it's, it's story is constantly speaking to me and she'd heard me talk about this on a podcast and email beam and she's now going to come on the show so we can really dive deep. So I was only talking about that today and it is.

Stephanie MacKay (35:01)

Yes.

Lian (35:18)

I guess, you know, any of these little portals that can kind of, you know, listen out because it might be that for some people it's not an object or it's not the house. could be something else in their surroundings. But I think there is this like, it's the land. And when I say the land, it could be the house. It could be a particular being on the land, kind of like always waiting for us to be ready to be in conversation.

Stephanie MacKay (35:44)

Mm-hmm.

Lian (35:44)

Listen to their story. That's what I've found over the years. It could come in the most unexpected ways, but it will.

Stephanie MacKay (35:53)

Absolutely, yeah. And I think that's really important because not everybody has access to the land. Of course, you know, spending time on the land, being in deep conversation with the beings of the land is another way of doing that. Not everybody has that access. ⁓ And so it can be anything. There is an origins, there is a story to everything. And

Lian (36:17)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (36:18)

For sure, mean, oh my gosh, living in a home that's 400 years old, my heart just is like, oh, it's so beautiful. But yeah, it can come in any way and we will all find a different way in.

Lian (36:35)

Hmm, yeah. So we are ⁓ beginning to be up on time and I think you may need to come back and we do a part two actually because I feel like we've barely begun the story.

Stephanie MacKay (36:49)

Yeah.

Lian (36:52)

I'm just trying to choose which direction we go in the time we've got. So if there is a, and I appreciate this is a challenging question given what we've been talking about ancestry and the land we're on, but as a kind of overall culture, is there a story that you think is speaking to us or waiting for us to rediscover it? Like, is there one story that you'd say like right now?

Stephanie MacKay (36:53)

you.

Lian (37:22)

This is the one that, you know, if we could just all pay attention, would be trying to bring us back to ourselves.

Stephanie MacKay (37:33)

You're right. That's a very difficult question. You know, there's a couple of stories that come to my mind. ⁓ Cinderella.

or Iron John. And the reason why, and some people may hear me say Cinderella and they're like, ⁓ really? Come on. The story of Cinderella, I work with the version from the Grimm Brothers. ⁓ There's immense beauty in that story. And there is a very, very old, old understanding of grief, of initiation, of ancestry of lineage of the complex ⁓ fabric of ⁓ family of land of the holy that ⁓ initiates us that brings us back into union with the land. ⁓ And if we only studied that story, ⁓

And I also say that one because it's one that, you know, we all know. And that's part of what I am also trying to do is that we have these stories that are so hugely popular. But yeah, exactly. There's a reason why. And yet they're currently popularized from the lens of the dominant culture. But

Lian (38:52)

Mmm.

I wonder why.

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (39:16)

The reason why they have survived, the reason why they're so widespread and continue to show up is because there is something so deep and so important for us ⁓ in those stories. ⁓ So yeah, I would say Iron John or Cinderella ⁓ because they're two that are very popular and yet there's something so ancient and so beautiful.

Lian (39:36)

Mmm.

Stephanie MacKay (39:46)

⁓ And they're also suffering. They're also suffering.

Lian (39:53)

Mmm.

⁓ It's funny, isn't it really how from one perspective, it seems as though we're so far away and yet all of these things are kind of like hidden in plain sight. It's, yeah, it's so clear how we are just so wired for story. Like you just said that about Cinderella, of course, you know, it's something that everyone knows.

Stephanie MacKay (39:59)

Thank

I know. They're right there.

Lian (40:24)

And we haven't forgotten that love of story. Yeah, it's one of those things that I could almost be really surprised about on a daily basis.

Stephanie MacKay (40:38)

I'm continually surprised. I hope I never lose my wonder when I read a story. the wonder is just so huge for me. And it's over and over over again. It's a little bit like, you know, every year when spring comes, I'm in such awe of, it's like, this happens every year. And I'm just in such awe and rapture about how amazing this transformation is. And it's the same with stories.

Lian (40:44)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Hehehehehe

Stephanie MacKay (41:07)

They're, yeah, they are, as you say, it's, they're right there. And that's part of what is so exciting for me.

Lian (41:15)

Yeah, I was just pondering, actually, as you said that, going back to the seed jar metaphor and what you just said about spring. Me too. And part of that for me is ⁓ welcoming back those old friends, know, those plants that I've like tended and spoken to and kind of like lost myself in for like, we've lived here now 12 years. And so

Stephanie MacKay (41:31)

you

Lian (41:41)

that's a lot of times that I've like seen the same plants go back and then sometimes grieved the ones that have been lost along the way. ⁓ And again, I think there's just so many ways that all of these things are speaking to us and our culture dismisses them. Like it's just gardening or it's just this. And yes, so much just kind of like they're just behind the veil.

Stephanie MacKay (41:48)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. I think If we took the word just out of so much of our languaging our world would transform. Because there's this way 'just' is put in there to diminish what I would say, what the dominant culture wants to diminish because it is actually a way back in to our

Lian (42:19)

Hmm.

Yes.

Stephanie MacKay (42:37)

original understanding in our original relationship, which doesn't support the status quo of the dominant culture. So we diminish by putting just, it's just that it's just gardening. it's just a walk, it's just, you know. Forget learning the origins of things if we want to create the conditions... take out just.

Lian (43:01)

I love that. love that. I already know sometimes there's a, someone says something and I already know the team are going to be going like, we must use that as a quote or a clip. think that's going to be one of them. So we are up on time. One final question. And I'm interested to know your answer to this given what you said earlier about Red Riding Hood and what you've said about Cinderella.

Stephanie MacKay (43:14)

Great.

Mm-hmm.

Lian (43:29)

But if there was a myth that your soul came here to live and a particular figure from folk tale or story, what would that be for you? And what is that quest that your soul has been called upon?

Stephanie MacKay (43:48)

Well… In my other answers, I use stories that I think most people would know. ⁓ And so this one, this is just me. There's this amazing story, it's called The Childhood of Shabantanukwo. And it's from the Nart Sagas from the Caucasus Mountains. And there's a woman in that story, and she doesn't have a name in the story. And there's lots of reasons why that might be.

Lian (43:54)

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie MacKay (44:18)

it's possibly that her name is too sacred and is not allowed to be said outside of ceremony because I understand that the stories are ceremonies. ⁓ She's the wife of Shabanton and she's the mother of Shabantonukwo. And she's, her story is amazing and she's this incredible ⁓ warrior woman and mother and being of the land and her journey is very complex and beautiful and ⁓ I feel her deeply in my heart and soul.

Lian (44:59)

Mmm,

⁓ gorgeous. And I love the way you were just like, you know what, this is one for me. going back to that kind of, you might feel it like, well, I kind of really said it, but the second part of the question is kind of what is that quest that your soul has come here to live into?

Stephanie MacKay (45:06)

Yeah.

Mmm.

I think my soul is here to… live into an initiation that has been lost ⁓ and to marry the land and forever hold ⁓ a seat for the holy in nature and to forever remember my responsibility in feeding the ones who give me life every day.

Lian (45:57)

Mmm.

Thank you. I'm glad I want to just check. Is there anything else? my goodness. Stephanie, I've absolutely loved this conversation and I suspect listeners will have too. Where can they find out more about you and the gorgeous work you do?

Stephanie MacKay (46:17)

Thank you, Lian. Well, my website is the best place to get in touch with me. It's StephanieMakai.ca. And there's, I have some online offerings posted there. There's also a lot of in-person, but likely not too many people will be in this local area. Yeah, and I've got an online, actually the discussion about ⁓ initiation on August 12th.

It's called Mythic Memory, Initiation in the Time of Forgetting. And so I would love to, yeah, see some folks there. And I think that's it. I think my website's the best place to be

Lian (46:58)

⁓ wonderful.

Could be a perfect next step for someone after listening to this show. Well, thank you so much. This really has been ⁓ such a pleasure. It really has. There's been so many parts of this where I'm like, we could have a whole conversation just about this part, but I'm glad we managed to, yeah, I feel like sort of take a story into a number of different places. It feels really good to me, at least again

Stephanie MacKay (47:01)

Mm-hmm.

Lian (47:24)

potentially coming back and continuing in a part two.

Stephanie MacKay (47:28)

Thank you, Lian. Well, I'm very, very touched by the work that you're doing. And thank you for, ⁓ yeah, lifting up the voice of myth and the voice of those people who are in relationship with myth and land and soul. So thank you for the work that you're doing.

Lian (47:45)

I very much hope you enjoyed watching that and if you did and you're not already subscribed then do hit that bell thingy and subscribe to automatically get each fresh new episode as it's released each week. If you'd like to find out more about the work we do at Be Mythical to guide and support old souls in this new world to live their own unique myth…

Do hop along to bemythical.com and you'll find out all the ways you can join us and go deeper with us on your own mythical journey.

Lots of love for now.

See you again next week.

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