The 12 Sacred Wounds and medicine of the zodiac (transcript)

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Episode Transcript:

Lian (00:00)

Hello my beautiful mythical old souls and a huge warm welcome back. What if your astrological birth chart didn't only reveal who you are, but the sacred wound you came here to heal?

Well, in this conversation I'm joined by the wonderful John Wadsworth.

John has been an astrologer since the early 1990s, and has been running the professionally accredited Kairos School of Astrology since 2010. He's the author of the book, Your Zodiac Soul, and the founder of The Alchemical Journey, a zodiac mystery school based in Glastonbury. Together we explore the 12 sacred wounds of the zodiac, weaving together astrology myth and embodied healing. What began as a conversation about John's personal journey into astrology, unfolded into a profound exploration of how the signs of the zodiac

reflect not only our personality traits, but also the core wounds and medicines we carry through life.

reflect on everything from the shame of Aries, the beauty wound of Libra,a little bit too poignant given that's the very body of work that I'm journeying through with women at the moment in Beauty Potion. And I have a stellium in Libra as you'll hear in the episode, the longy of cancer to the mistrust of Scorpio. Whether you know your chart intimately or perhaps only your sun sign, this episode is a rich, reflective guide to the wounds you carry and the deepest soul gifts waiting to emerge. My invitation is to listen with your whole being.

And before we jump into all of that good stuff, if you're struggling with walking your soul path in this crazy modern world and would benefit from guidance, support and kinship, come join our Academy of the Soul Unio. You can find out more by hopping on over to bemythical.com slash unio or click the link in the description.

And now back to this week's episode, let's dive in.

Lian (02:00)

Hello and welcome to the show John. How are you?

John Wadsworth (02:03)

Hello, nice to see you, Lian. Really glad to be able to do this.

Lian (02:07)

Hmm, my goodness, this topic I'll share actually with listeners before we dive in. This is our second attempt. We began last week and with valiant attempts to actually make an episode, we were thwarted every turn. However, I feel like now it was meant to happen because we were kind of going to talk about something else. And then we threw up resulting conversation, realised the conversation we're meant to have is about the 12 sacred wounds, which couldn't be dearer to my own heart, this notion of the gift is in the wound and really allowing our wounds to bleed gold. So looking at this from an astrological sense is just like the best thing ever as far as I'm concerned. I'm delighted that we've made our way here.

John Wadsworth (03:00)

Yeah, great. Yeah, it feels like a good topic.

Lian (03:03)

So it really, really does. So rich. So I would love to begin with a little bit of your origin story and what brought you to working the way that you do.

John Wadsworth (03:17)

OK, so it all began quite a long time ago now, back in 1990. I was traveling in Spain with my brother. were traveling around Spain. We landed in this tiny little village on the beach. And I met a guy in a bar. Sounds like the beginning of a joke, doesn't it? But yeah, I met a guy in a bar. we had this extraordinary conversation.

Lian (03:39)

Hahaha

John Wadsworth (03:43)

I'd not met him before, but he was a friend of the group that I was sort of hanging out with. And ⁓ at the end of sort of halfway into this conversation, half an hour into it, I felt like I knew him. I felt like he was like a mirror of me or something. And then he said this extraordinary thing. He looked me in the eye and he said, you're an Aries. I'm how do you know that? How could you possibly know that? And I didn't know anything about astrology, nothing. Literally, I didn't know what that meant. just I knew that I was an Aries and that was it literally that was it I said, how do you know that? What does that mean? And he and he just got into it He wasn't like an astrologer or anything, but he handed me this book this little book about Aries and what Aries were like I start to read it and it's like it's like I'm reading my own secret a diary that I've been writing secretly to myself without telling myself Because it's like my god, this is who I am

Lian (04:16)

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (04:39)

This is like this describing what I who I know myself to be, but I wasn't living that way. I was living another way. I was living as I was pretending or trying to fit in and trying to be something that I wasn't. And it was had such an impact on me. It was like it's like something just awoke in me. It was incredible. And I I got very excited and we kind of, you know, drew our conversation to a close, he let me keep the book and I went outside and I just lay under the stars. I lay under the sky, there's a full moon. And I lay there for a few hours, watching the sky slowly turn, watching the moon slowly turn, that the tide had come right up as well, like a full moon tide, know, it's like it had come up higher than I'd seen it. We've been there for a few weeks, but it was like, because it was really remote part of southern Spain.

Lian (05:29)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (05:38)

right at the point where Spain, where Europe almost meets Africa near a place called Tarifa, little village near there. And funnily enough, called the Pillars of Hercules, because you've got the Atlas Mountains on one side, you've got the Rock of Gibraltar on the other, and where we were is, and that always struck me as very significant because Hercules was an astrological hero with his 12 labors, right? So it was the beginning of my astrological adventure, but I'm laying there under the sky.

Lian (05:44)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (06:09)

And I'm just mesmerized by the stars. I've never really looked at the sky before. It's never really ⁓ been a big part of my life or anything. I just ignored this path, this visual field, really, I think up until that point. But it was extraordinary. And as I lay there, I was having this kind of epiphany. was like everything in my body and being was changing. And I remember it distinctly. It was as if a voice came out of the sky and I heard it resound in my head and it just said, what's turning in the sky is turning in you. What's turning in the sky is turning in you. And it changed my life. It was the moment that changed my life. And over the weeks and months that followed when I got back to England, I just became obsessed with, well, I actually just became obsessed with these 12 signs of the zodiacs. I didn't really know anything about astrology. just knew that, I knew that there was something in this. And so I wanted to know what sign everybody was. I had this...

Lian (06:49)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (07:17)

uncanny knack to be able to just walk up to somebody in the street and kind of know what they were for a little while. And this came in, you know, I started to have visionary experiences, really powerful vision experiences and dreams. I started to get glimpses of the future and it all came at once. It overwhelmed my system completely. And over a period of about five months, it came in waves. In fact, it came in waves on full moons.

Lian (07:40)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (07:47)

I got really, I became heightened, really, really heightened in my sensory awareness at full moons until the full moon in January of 1991 when I had a full peak visionary experience that sent me, which actually through what happened in my body became a kind of near death experience. And I actually glimpsed, I glimpsed.

Lian (08:08)

Wow.

John Wadsworth (08:12)

what's beyond death. I was shown that I'd lived many times. I'd never even thought about reincarnation before. never even occurred to me. Suddenly I'm seeing past lives flashing before me in this altered state. I was above my body. I thought I was passing over. It was like I had a choice. It was a choice point where I could have passed over. I was hyperventilating in my body to the point that I almost expired. And then I came back. It was a very dramatic thing. then, you know, it was such a huge time. But it was astrology that somehow awakened this incredible passion and incredible life force and energy and confidence as well. I became confident in who I was for the first time ever. I'd been very lacking in that for my teenage years. And it's led...

Lian (09:07)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (09:10)

It's led me into quite an unusual life, that experience in a way. I was leading a very conventional life before that. I didn't have a single person around me who had any interest or knowledge of any of this. So I literally had to go out and find new friends and start again. Everyone thought I was mad. I was acting mad. I was acting kind of crazy for quite a while. But astrology, somehow I couldn't let go of the astrology.

Lian (09:30)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (09:38)

There was a lot of other elements to it as well. There were religious elements came in as well. had having visionary experiences around around Christ as well at that point, even though I wasn't really a Christian or anything. So it was a lot going on, but it was the astrology that that I stayed with. And I always say astrology sort of sent me mad and kept me sane simultaneously because it gave me a structure and it gave me gave me a spiritual

Lian (10:00)

Hmm. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (10:08)

Because for me it's been a spiritual path.

Lian (10:12)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (10:13)

And I say that because it's enabled me to keep dropping deeper into myself and to keep dropping deeper into the core of my own healing through being able to address this core wound. Because that's what got exposed in that moment. Actually what was exposed was the core wound, which is an Aries. The way I describe the core wound of Aries is...I don't have the right to be here.

Lian (10:45)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (10:46)

And something in this experience opened that up and I realised that I actually did have the right to be here. Not only that, but I had the right to be fully here, fully present, fully alive and to live life in the moment from that place.

Lian (11:02)

Yeah, wow. Thank you so much for sharing that so, so much in everything you've shared. And because I know that we've got 12 gorgeous wounds to get through, I'm not going to ask too much about your experience, even though there's so many things I want to. But there's something I do want to ask before we start to dive in to each of the sacred wounds, which is, of course, and I you know this, ⁓Of course, someone's chart is, you know, so much more than their sun sign, but I'm guessing it's the sun sign that you first were kind of was opened up by and is what you're focusing on primarily when you're talking about the sacred wounds. Or maybe not. So that's that's a kind of question. Yeah. Okay. So I'd love to know just your yeah. So tell me, put me straight. What is it that you're really talking about when you're

John Wadsworth (11:50)

Not necessarily, no. Yeah. Yeah, no, not necessarily. Yeah, I mean, when I originally got opened up, all I had were these 12, were the 12 signs and so the 12 sun signs, you know, it took me, it probably took me quite a, it took me sort of six months to a year to kind of calm down from that experience and actually go out and start studying astrology. And I taught myself over next few years until I became professional in my sort of mid-twenties. And I've been working professionally as an astrologer ever since. So I've worked deeply with people's birth chart, of course. But it's always come through this sort of healing route, really. I'm interested in how we heal. And I'm interested in how we get to what's broken and what's wounded. I mean, we're living in a broken world. It seems to me the best thing we can do is to understand our own brokenness so that we can...

Lian (12:44)

Hmm.

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (12:53)

Address that and that certainly feels like my role. A lot of the work that I've done has been around embodied, what I call embodied astrology, and how to access and become aware of where this astrological energy is in the body and how to access it, how to access the planet, planetary archetypes and the signs and where they live in our body and how to bring those out. I use, I work a lot with healing theater. astrological theater, astrodrama, where we enact the birth chart in order to try and touch these places and see what's, often we're complex, we're made up of a range of archetypes and the planets serve as those archetypal players in our life. So I'm interested in how we awaken those. And each one, of course, is in a sign of the zodiac. So you can also access the medicine, as I call it, of each

Lian (13:46)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (14:01)

planetary archetype through the sign that it's in, obviously through its placement in the birth chart, the house that it's in, the aspects that it makes, and so on. But what I've done, I I work with the zodiac, my zodiac work, which I distinguish slightly from the main body of my astrological work, I'm interested in the zodiac itself as a medicine wheel.

Lian (14:11)

Hmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (14:29)

And my first book, Your Zodiac Soul, really opens up that idea of the Zodiac as a medicine wheel as 12, I call it 12 gateways to wholeness. So how we tap into those deep archetypal stories that live within us and to see them as kind of initiatory stages in a journey of recovering the wholeness that we are.

Lian (14:42)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (14:58)

Yeah, so that's where I guess we can we can come in with the with the wounds in that in that way, because one of the things that I've done is I've you know, I've kind of come up with these kind of pithy one liner kind of wound signatures for each sign that that kind of pierce pierces that they kind of I needed to feel that they actually pierced to the core of the of the wound of each side so we can we can get into that a little bit if you like. Yeah.

Lian (14:58)

That makes sense. Hmm. Yes. Hmm. Well, if I could just ask this question before we dive in and take a journey through them. For someone listening, which in this instance, includes me, would you suggest we look at this conversation or listen to this through the lens of our sun sign or not? Like, how would you say we're going to like most fully receive?

John Wadsworth (15:53)

Yeah, mean, mean, the sun sign will obviously be a major because the sun, the sun in astrology represent is how we come, how we grow into our self, our self and our sense of self. It's it's to do with our sovereignty and to do with how we claim our kind of our ⁓ creative autonomy of our own lives in a way. I'd say that's what the sun represents. We become.

Lian (15:53)

what you're sharing.

Mm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (16:21)

we become aware that we are the creative heart of our own life. Not to say that we're not obviously also subject to a sense of destiny, that's also there and that's also part of it. But that sense that I am conscious of who I am, that's really where the sun is. Whereas the moon sign, which is very, important, of course, is really the memory of who we are. It's where we come from.

Lian (16:41)

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (16:51)

very much to do with how we feel. It's the emotional tides that we are subject to. It's a lot to do with behavior, instinct. A lot of that comes out of the moon. So often the signature can actually touch in quite deeply to the moon sign. So you might hear the wound signature strongly through your moon sign, equally through your ascendant as well, your rising sign, you know, which.

Lian (17:02)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

John Wadsworth (17:17)

is your first interface with the world. Often we tend to look more like our rising sign than we do like our sun sign because it's the first impression that we make on the world. The first thing that a person sees comes as an imprint from the rising sign. And then the sun sign sits just behind that because, you can't hide from your rising sign. It's sort of written all over your face. You and I have the same one, right? We're both Pisces rising.

Lian (17:27)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm, yeah. We share this. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (17:46)

which means we can be anything. We're chameleons, right? We can just shape shift and change. But that's, yeah, so that's the first. So that's also, you you'd also be touched, I think, by the wooden signature of your rising sign. And then, of course, you've got your Mercury sign, your Venus sign, your Mars sign as well, all these different archetypes. And I was going to come to Chiron. So the other, course, we have in astrology the Chiron.

Lian (17:49)

Mmm.

called Chiron which yeah

John Wadsworth (18:16)

the wounded healer, Kyron was discovered in 1977 and its discovery seemed to correspond with a lot of ⁓ the awakening of, ⁓ it came alongside a lot of the complementary medicine coming into more to the fore. It came in line with a lot of the plant medicine traditions from South America and so on. The book, Way of the Shaman was written that year that Kyron was discovered, which was my Michael.

Lian (18:35)

you

John Wadsworth (18:46)

a very influential book. So shamanism, plant medicine start to come in very strongly around the Chiron time. I think because, you know, they often when these new planets are discovered and they carry the archetype of the myth of Chiron, because Chiron was the centaur, half man, half horse, who was the mentor to the heroes like Hercules and Achilles and Jason and so on in Greek myth. But he was fatally

Lian (18:46)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (19:15)

Well, he was wounded by his, ⁓ with a poisoned arrow from his mentor, from his student, Hercules. And because he was immortal, he couldn't heal from it. Or rather, he couldn't die. So he couldn't, and he couldn't heal it. So he just suffered with this wound. And, you know, try as he might, you know, he tried to heal his own wound. And in that process, he learned the deep, the deep arts of medicine. and became the master healer of others, but always having to carry his own wound, having to bear his own wound. So the Chiron archetype is really this archetype of the wounded healer who carries the wound, but actually through their deep knowledge and understanding of it and their capacity to be vulnerable in the face of it, actually that is the medicine. So this idea that the wound informs the healing vocation in a way.

Lian (19:49)

Mmm.

Hmm

John Wadsworth (20:15)

That resonates so deeply for me personally, and I know it does for many other people as well, especially in these times.

Lian (20:15)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's been one of my real favourites archetypes and ⁓ just ways of seeing the world that just makes so much sense. It's one of those things I think as soon as you are kind of initiated by Chiron, it's like, ⁓ it now will make sense. And so I think there is just in this conversation and a need to kind of acknowledge Chiron, even if it's not our retirement positions specifically we're going to be talking about.

John Wadsworth (20:50)

Well, we could be talking about that. I mean, this is the other thing is to be aware of the Chiron position. And it could be that that actually is where it really touches in. I mean, it's difficult for me to discern the two because I'm born with an exact Sun-Chiron conjunction in Aries. So my Sun and Chiron are right together. Hence why this was so powerful when it awoke in me and when I was awakened to it, because the wound was so much connected with my sovereignty and my sense of who I am that that's what

Lian (20:56)

Hmm.

⁓ Of course, yes.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (21:19)

that's what it was you know so so strong yeah right there

Lian (21:21)

Yes, perfect storm right there. And so it may well be that listeners, if they are somewhat aware of their chart and know the different placements they have, they could be listening through that lens, but they may get lots just if they only are really aware of their sun sign. And I guess, you know, as you know, I've got quite a fat Libra stellium. And so I'm guessing, you know, if we have something like that with a lot going on in a particular sign, it's likely that we're going to be feeling a lot of that particular wound. you, would you say that? Yeah.

John Wadsworth (21:56)

Absolutely, yeah, if you've got a lot of planets in one sign, the medicine of that sign is going to be felt.

Lian (22:03)

Okay, let's dive in. Take us on a tour.

John Wadsworth (22:03)

So, yeah, okay. Well, let's go from the beginning. I already said with Aries, because Aries is so much about the birth. Aries is really the birth trauma, comes out of the birth trauma, is the, so we come into this world, we're cut away from this incredible security and all our needs are met in the womb and suddenly we're thrust out into this world. You know, and so the Aries wound really links to that, to that original kind of impulse, you whatever it is that draws us out, what our soul has drawn out into this world to meet the world and the raw vulnerability of that, you

Lian (22:42)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (22:46)

and the, in Aries or the Aries wound is very much, I don't exist. I don't have the right to be here.

Lian (22:57)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (22:57)

A lot of us born in the late 60s, early 70s have this wound because Chiron spends a long time in Aries actually. It's in Aries at the moment as well. But it was there from 69 to 77, something like that. So, you know, it's one that a lot of us carry and you can feel that. So, you know,

Lian (23:21)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (23:23)

So what we tend to that tends to bring up a lot of shame. So Aries carries a lot of shame around just being, just being here. And that can manifest as well because we tend to build our lives to buffer ourselves against the wound. Most people spend most of their lives turning away from the wood and then building a defense against it. And if the defense against it from Aries is to is to be kind of off is often to be bold and brash and, and, and, sometimes aggressive or

Lian (23:31)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (23:52)

pushy or dominant, that can be a defense against the Aries wound, as can an intense sort of self-consciousness which can also afflict an Aries as well. I really suffered with that before I kind of woke up to myself in my twenties, yeah. ⁓

Lian (24:02)

Mmm.

Yes, it's, would you agree that with most things, if not all things, when we're talking about the shadows of something, there's a kind of pole of like a deflated end and an inflated end or a pressed end and an over expressed end. Has that definitely been what you've seen about these particular wounds?

John Wadsworth (24:29)

Yes. Yeah, because you can also go to the other pole as well. You know, I mean, I've been through periods, especially after that, when I became, you know, I went from being like, wouldn't say, boo to a goose to like being so overconfident. You know, it was like it was like a rebalancing or something in that initial period. So it has swung a little bit. You kind of sometimes have to when something awakens in you, that archetype can sort of take over, especially especially for a fireside. Yeah.

Lian (24:48)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mmm, and I think it's needed as a part of the healing isn't it? It kind of creates that spaciousness.

John Wadsworth (25:05)

Yeah, it's part of the healing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and I'd also say because, know, Aries ruler is Mars. So if you had a Chiron Mars, strong Chiron Mars aspect in your chart, this would also very much link to that wound as well, because Mars is that life force, vital will energy that drives us and that sort of, yeah. So that could be also a Chiron Mars.

Lian (25:23)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (25:35)

signature too. Should we move on to Victor Taurus then? Yeah.

Lian (25:36)

You Well, before we do, what would you say is the, for someone hearing this, what is the medicine? How does someone ⁓ walk that healing path?

John Wadsworth (25:43)

The medicine, yeah. Well, I mean, the medicine with Aries is really is really around just just just showing up as yourself and trusting that you are trusting that your place in the world is is valid, you know, and that you're in a way mean Aries really carries carries a lot of the of the hero archetype very much Leo Leo also and there's something about just your being in the world that that's enough.

Lian (26:08)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (26:16)

And often Aries are very good at starting things and not necessarily, famously not good at following through. So trust in that, trust that, know, strike while the iron's hot, you know, trust the moment, trust the impulse when it comes. And, you know, don't worry too much about what happens afterwards. Aries, you know, we don't have the best memories sometimes because we're living so much in the moment. It's like, we're just like...

Lian (26:17)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah, yeah.

John Wadsworth (26:44)

It's only it's happening now. So live for now, you know, live for the moment. Yeah. I mean, the mantra, sorry. Yeah, go on.

Lian (26:50)

And I… I was about to say ⁓ my senses with each the medicine of each of the signs is less a magic bullet and more a kind of practice, orientation, devotion that you live into. not like, ⁓ now I'm just going to like know that I have a right to exist and ta-da, it's all gonna get better. It's a more a kind of, yeah.

John Wadsworth (27:07)

It's... Yeah, exactly. No, it's a practice. It's a practice and you know, and I have a mantra for each sign, which is the kind of healing mantra. And with Aries, it's, you know, I, it's, I'm here, I am now fully present as I am. And it's just that remembering that I am here now in this moment. That's who I am, you know, and it's just to come back to that and to trust in that.

Lian (27:33)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (27:43)

Because we tend to Aries push us with the head and often will bang their head because they're pushing head first. Sometimes you see a classic sort of Aries like walking down the street with their head like two feet ahead of the rest of their body. So it's that, know, so that's pushing against and trusting that you don't have to push and butt against the world, but you can actually just.

Lian (27:43)

you

Hehehehehe

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (28:09)

It's okay just to settle into yourself. You haven't got to force your way in.

Lian (28:14)

Mmm. Yeah, beautiful. Okay, I'm now ready to move on.

John Wadsworth (28:19)

Taurus, this is your moon sign, isn't it? We're doing your moon sign now. Yeah, right. So with Taurus, it's all about embodiment. Aries is like a spark of life. It's like it's the vital spark and then it drops into the body and it drops into the body in Taurus. It's like our senses come online at this point.

Lian (28:22)

It is, yes.

Hmmmm

John Wadsworth (28:41)

So the wound with Taurus, it's very much around, how we receive and how we take experience into the body and how we experience the value of that. So the wound with Taurus is a lot around value and worth. So it's a lot around, because with Taurus, it's very much in the taste.

Lian (28:52)

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (29:09)

in the, and in the, in touch. And, and it's, and it's, and it's about where Aries is about giving out, Taurus is very much about allowing in. And in order to allow things in, we have to feel that we're worthy of that. We have to recognise our inherent worth and our inherent value. So with, with, so the, the wound with Taurus is often, there's not enough. I'm not enough. I'm not worthy of what there is, you know.

Lian (29:19)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (29:40)

is in. So, Chiron in Taurus can feel this. But any position in Taurus which is under, can also be planets in the second house sometimes as well, can bring this up. Or a challenging aspect with Venus, is about Taurus's ruling planet, which is about receiving. But it's something about, you know, am I worthy to receive? And the medicine here is gratitude.

Lian (29:41)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (30:08)

to grateful for what I

Lian (30:10)

It's really interesting as I'm listening to this. I'm like, it makes complete sense. And my tour is actually in the second house. So it's, it's kind of, you know, all the things that you're talking about. And yet, I know, I wonder, this is, I'm going to share my own experience, but this is making me want to ask a question more generally. I feel as There's Other parts of my chart where I've really felt the wound, where the Taurus, my Taurus moon always feels like it's a kind of been my sort of get out of jail free card almost, you know, as in like I was kind of...

John Wadsworth (30:49)

It's a beautiful position for the moon though. The moon is happiest when it's in Taurus. you know, it's a very nice, and it's in the second house as well, which is a comfort, which is a comfort, like a comfort blanket in a way. Yeah. So some planets are much happier in some signs than others.

Lian (30:54)

Mmm.

Mmm. Yes, because it feels as though, mmm.

It is felt as though this is a place that I'm kind least wounded and kind of almost just sort of comes very easily to me to be in the gift of Taurus. And so.

John Wadsworth (31:20)

And from what I remember of your chart from having looked at it the other day, I think your moon is actually very well placed in your chart as well. has very harmonious aspects.

Lian (31:32)

Hmm. Yeah, it feels like a kind of like sweet spot for me. And interestingly, when you were saying what the medicine is, I've always had that just sort of natural capacity for gratitude. It's like just an orientation I have. And so I was thinking, that's interesting that in some ways, it's no wonder that that's come naturally to me, because it's like I've been in the medicine without needing to be in the wound. Hmm.

John Wadsworth (32:01)

You've also got a very well placed Venus, right, as well in Libra, I think. So, you your Venus is actually in good shape and your moon's in pretty good shape because they're in a nice, they've got quite a good harmony going on too. But, you know, a Taurus moon, let's say if you had a Taurus moon conjunct Chiron in Taurus, that would be very different. That would be a very different sort of story, right? Yeah, yeah, great.

Lian (32:04)

Mm. Yes. Yeah.

Mmm.

Yes, yeah, Wonderful. It's funny, isn't it, how sometimes the exceptions prove the rule? And I think that my, yeah, my experience is one of those. And did you share the Mount Montreux for Taurus?

John Wadsworth (32:28)

Yeah, yeah,

I'm fully embodied here in the sensuality of this moment. Yeah. I am fully embodied here in the sensuality of this moment. This is the thing. It's like to allow the senses to trust in your own senses, to take time, to slow down, to just allow...

Lian (32:42)

Hmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (32:56)

yourself to receive all the bounty of life, like being in the garden. Like this time of year, we're in now, the blossom. Taurus is like a gift. It's like the gift of the zodiac, really. It's the goodness. It's just allowing that in. That's why the moon feels so happy there, because the moon wants to feel safe and things are familiar. When Taurus goes, it's okay, we're just going to slow down and we're just going to allow, we're just going to breathe it all in.

Lian (33:01)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (33:25)

It's okay.

Lian (33:26)

Yeah, that sounds exactly like how I experienced the world. Wonderful. Okay, let's move on.

John Wadsworth (33:36)

So Gemini takes us into the air element and it takes us into language, it takes us into ideas, it takes us into dialogue. Gemini has a lot to do with dialogue, so it's a lot to do with the sense of hearing and speaking, communication, it's what we pick up, it's the way that we interpret what we see in the world. ⁓ And it's also where we substitute the stuff, is Taurus. Taurus is very involved in the stuff, the stuff that we can see, touch, hold, Whereas Gemini, in Gemini, there's this move toward, well, you know, I can give that a name and then the name can almost substitute for the thing itself. it becomes, so we learn then to trade with words and ideas.

Lian (34:27)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (34:33)

We learn to negotiate. learn, we learn and we become very clever. So Gemini is the cleverest of the signs in a way, ruled by Mercury, you the trickster. And so we, we learn to make things up. We learn to get around situations. We learn to use language to get what we want, to convince or coerce or cajole or, or manipulate or enchant poetry or, you know,

Lian (34:41)

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (35:02)

we become orators and we use rhetoric and so on. So all of this arises in Gemini. And it arises quite early as well in the child's development, you know, when we learn to speak and, know, like the precocious child will learn to get around their parents and learn to, you know, they'll use their kind of clever devices to be able to get what they want, very early on. But the wound here is, I'm not heard.

Lian (35:13)

Hmm.

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (35:31)

or my words are lost, know, I'm not being listened to, I'm not being heard.

Lian (35:40)

Hmm, do you have anything in Gemini? ⁓ okay. So this is one that...

John Wadsworth (35:44)

The moon. My moon's unlike your lovely moon in Taurus. So my moon's a little more afflicted, let's say. So I definitely relate to this one.

Lian (35:50)

I don't know why I had this... yeah, I had a sense that there was something, ⁓ you know, particularly profound for you in this one and I'm guessing you've experienced that.

John Wadsworth (36:08)

It's a storyteller's moon. A lot of astrologers have this actually, haven't they? But it's really a storyteller's moon. I work a lot with myth and story. And I see astrology really as a form of storytelling.

Lian (36:12)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (36:25)

people to change their stories in a way or to reframe their stories. I do a lot of work with people around this. ⁓ So that's a part of it. But there is something around being misunderstood. The Gemini wound can be around or being misheard or misrepresented, mistranslated in a way or not being, yeah, that something is like, well, I didn't say that. so,

Lian (36:50)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (36:54)

Geminis are also susceptible to gossip and to what I call loose talk. That can be a sort of shadow part of Gemini. But the, yeah. Right, okay.

Lian (37:00)

Hmm.

My Saturn's in Gemini and I can definitely feel there's something here for me.

John Wadsworth (37:12)

Yeah, the Saturn placement, also the Saturn is a sort of karmic placement. We get tested a lot through the Saturn position by house, by sign. So yeah, can be, it's like an area that we have to like work out a bit or where we can feel diminished or that we have to initiate through that sign, the sign that Saturn's in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lian (37:19)

Mmm. ⁓

Mmm.

Mmm.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, this one definitely feels like a profound one for me too. like you, there's definitely been this, like working with story. I've had a love of myth, you know, right back to childhood. And then it was only really in more recent years that it was kind of a reclamation of my own.

John Wadsworth (37:42)

But yeah, yeah, go on.

Lian (38:04)

of inner storyteller but then also kind of working with stories with others and so what you were saying there about that kind of karmic aspect I can really feel how this has been a really important wound and healing for me.

John Wadsworth (38:17)

Hmm.

Lian (38:20)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (38:20)

Yeah, yeah, beautiful. so the Gemini is also a light bringer. I Gemini is light in both senses, light as in weightless, but also light as in the bringer of the light. mean, Gemini has this wonderful ability to see things from different perspectives, to change, to be flexible, to move like the wind, you know. So it's got this quality of lightness, but it also brings through qualities of light that ⁓

Lian (38:34)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (38:49)

It's to do with also, I mean, in the Christian tradition, this is the this is the Festival of Pentecost in the year, which is when Christ comes to the apostles and and inspires them to speak in tongues. You know, so Germanian, isn't it? He can go out and spread the good news, spread the word, you know, go and pollinate like bees and, you know, and spread the word. And it's so thoroughly Germanian that. Yeah, I love that. And it's

Lian (39:04)

Mmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (39:18)

And so

Lian (39:18)

Yeah.

John Wadsworth (39:18)

the medicine here, or the mantras, is something like, I am a messenger of light, a conduit for the voice of my spirit twin. I think we're born with a part of us that doesn't incarnate. That's the idea of the spirit twin. And I think, like, I don't know if you had an invisible friend when you were little that you spoke to. But I think when we're really small, we're still connected to that.

Lian (39:28)

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (39:47)

And I think the impulse to communicate is actually coming from there. We're trying to communicate to that part of us that didn't incarnate, that spirit twin. And it's like, well, who are you talking to? And of course, that gets kind of bashed out of us really early on, doesn't it? Because we're supposed to be paying attention to the person who's meant to be drawing our communication out, when really, we're perfectly capable of doing that ourselves, finding our own way, whether it's verbal or non-verbal.

Lian (39:47)

Yeah, I love that.

Hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

John Wadsworth (40:16)

I've been very interested recently in these non-verbal autistics who are able to communicate. The telepathy tapes, isn't it incredible? Just blowing my mind. And it's resonating so deeply. So incredible. And that there is this, just because we're not speaking doesn't mean we're not communicating. And I think that...

Lian (40:26)

the telepathy tapes. my gosh. Yes. Obsessed. Yeah.

Mmm,

for sure.

John Wadsworth (40:43)

very young children, as very young children, have this ability still in us to communicate. And that's where communication is arising from. So that's all very interesting.

Lian (40:47)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Okay, moving on to our next one.

John Wadsworth (40:53)

should move on to cancer. the first of the watersides. So we've gone from fire to earth, fire Aries, earth Taurus, air Gemeni, and then we're into water, the water sign cancer. And here we drop into feeling, we drop into a sense of belonging, a sense of home, a sense of where we come from. It's the awakening in a way of our emotional life.

Lian (41:23)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (41:23)

I always think of cancer as like, as the first tear or as the welling up. Cancer is like a well, like a well spring and it's the welling up of tears, the welling up of feeling. And it's a very sensitive and gentle sign cancer, but it's really, there's this longing for home, this longing to belong. So the wound here, when...

Lian (41:51)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (41:53)

there's a wound signature in this sign like Kiwan in this sign or you know if there's something that is trying to you know we're trying to access you know this wounded place it's like I don't belong I have no home I have no tribe

Lian (42:12)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (42:17)

Where is my home? It's a lunar wound, so it couldn't be like a moon-chiron connection. Often people will feel that with a moon-chiron connection or chiron in cancer or any of the cancer positions. mean, again, the moon is at home here. The moon is in cancer, but it can still be felt as a deep need to know where you belong, to know where you come from.

Lian (42:23)

Hmm. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. I'm really noticing it's interesting that, ⁓Thus far, I've had something in each sign, apart from this is the first one I've got nothing in. And it's interesting, this is the first one that I don't really feel resonance with, which again, is kind of sort of proving your whole philosophy around this.

John Wadsworth (43:00)

You've got a lovely moon position. It's interesting, isn't it? Your moon is really, really content and you can probably magnetise a lovely home to you. imagine with your moon in Taurus, that would have been a priority, would be to find a lovely place, a lovely place which feels secure and safe. Is that true?

Lian (43:08)

Hmm. Yes, yes, yes, so it feels extra at home. Yeah.

Mmm.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting that. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

John Wadsworth (43:30)

⁓ So that's interesting, isn't it? But this is such a deep one for so many people, this sense of belonging, you where do I belong? Who do I belong to? A deep wound often with the mother or with the family, know, this feeling like the odd one out, feeling like you don't fit, feeling like you don't belong.

Lian (43:52)

Hmm.

Yeah. And the medicine or mantra for this one.

John Wadsworth (43:56)

The medicine here is, I...

I'm connected to the source of my being and I remember my origin.

Lian (44:10)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (44:11)

Connected

to the source of my being.

Lian (44:15)

Beautiful.

John Wadsworth (44:16)

We can, know, cancer needs to remember, it's important to remember. It's all very well saying, OK, well, you know, we're moving on. The future is more important than the past. All of those things, you know, but for that lunar part of us, that cancer part, we need to know where we come from. So we need to honour the, yeah, to honour the ancestors, to honour that sense of what's continuing through us.

Lian (44:34)

Yeah, in order to feel that embodied sense of home.

Mmm yeah beautiful. So on to Leo.

John Wadsworth (44:47)

Leo, yeah. So with Leo, back into another fire sign. And Leo comes off the back of cancer, you know. So if we've made a strong root and a strong sense of connection, emotional connection, connection to home and cancer, then we can come out in Leo with more confidence. Because Leo is really about the expression of the sun, ruled by the sun. So it's this sense of sovereignty, this sense of presence, of leadership, natural leadership, creativity. ⁓

Lian (45:06)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (45:17)

know, Leo is the natural leader of the zodiac, right? So there's a lot here around ⁓ sovereignty, around... So the wound here, it's also about showing up. With Aries, it's about Mars bursting into life, having to have that courage to come through and live.

Lian (45:34)

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (45:43)

with Aries, with Leo, it's more about how to sustain that, how to sustain your presence in the world, to step into who you are and hold that position of power or that position of leadership and to be seen. So Leo's wound is I'm not seen.

Lian (45:51)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (46:06)

or I'm not seen for who I am.

or I'm not recognised for

Lian (46:15)

Yeah.

John Wadsworth (46:15)

thing of not being recognised as you are. And I think it's a father wound. It's often linked to not being recognized or not being validated or not being championed by the father or by the archetype of the father.

Lian (46:33)

Hmm. It's interesting because another one, it's another one where I don't have anything in Leo. And I certainly, I was thinking it's interesting because it could seem similar to the Gemini wound of not being heard, which I really resonated with. I was like, it's interesting because they seem similar, but they feel different. And my daughters, they really do. And my daughter's a Leo moon.

John Wadsworth (46:57)

They feel different, don't they? Yeah.

Lian (47:03)

Sorry, Leo Sun, and is very Leo Sun. She's just glorious. Like, it's just big ray of, like people call her constantly a ray of sunshine. She really is a big ray of sunshine. And I was thinking, I can so see that wound, you know, she's not kind of fully in it. She's in that kind of, you know, she's in that sort of maidenhood of her life. So she's still full of all that kind of hope and possibility. But I notice a lot of her. questions that she'll ask are one way or another to have people see her. I was just kind of reflecting on, she's really interested in kind of how she's seen and how others are seen. Yeah, really makes sense.

John Wadsworth (47:48)

Yeah, yeah. so some of the wound, a like with Aries, some of the wound here is around shame. The shame to actually, you know, so often we have to overcome that with that fiery. Sometimes it comes as a sort of embarrassment or as a flush. signs, fire signs sometimes flush, kind of have a hot flushes or there's a redness that comes up, which is a sort of the heat rising to the surface. It's like, my God, everybody sees me.

Lian (47:56)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Mmm. ⁓

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (48:17)

But what are they seeing when they look at me? Whereas with Gemini, it's more auditory. very auditory, mental auditory with Gemini. It's a different thing. But it's lot to do with ideas and language, whereas here it's more about presence.

Lian (48:18)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes that really makes sense. And the mantra?

John Wadsworth (48:40)

I am as I am and I shine from the centre of my being.

Lian (48:46)

Mmm, gorgeous. Okay, onwards to Virgo.

John Wadsworth (48:48)

So this brings us into Virgo, the second earth sign. So whereas Taurus, the first earth sign, was ruled by Venus and is all just about receiving and enjoying and about pleasure, with Virgo, which is ruled by Mercury, it's now about differentiating, discriminating, discerning what's necessary from what's not. In the body, we've dropped into the intestines that we sort out, filter out, you know, what. you know, what's good from what's not, what's going to be useful from what's not. It's the sorting of the wheat from the chaff at the harvest season of the year. You know, it's got a lot to do with applying the mercurial capacity for analysis to the stuff of the world and to the body as well. So it's a lot to do with the body and it's a lot to do with work and it's a lot to do with the maintenance.

Lian (49:40)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (49:47)

of daily life.

Lian (49:49)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (49:51)

And it's got a lot to do with control as well. Virgo needs to have a level of control over the daily tasks of life. I I think it's very misunderstood sign, Virgo, I think, and it's very misrepresented as well, because it's deeply feminine. It's a deeply, deeply feminine image. It's a virgin and child. ⁓ But all our stories around...

Lian (50:03)

Mm-hmm.

Hmmmm ⁓

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (50:19)

virginity are all so twisted, you know, we're meant to believe in the virgin birth, you know, as if that's, and then that becomes a kind of model for how to be a woman in the world, somehow in Christianity, it's so distorted. And so it sort of makes sex dirty and something that we should be ashamed of. When really, virginity in the original sense, the earlier sense, was a chosen ⁓

Lian (50:23)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (50:48)

right of purification that a woman of sexual experience would make a choice and say, well, I'm withdrawing my sexual energy because I'm concentrating on my own intersexual alchemy for this period of time. And so that right, it's a right. It's not an imposed, it's not an imposition of celibacy or purity. And I think that the distortion in Virgo, because a lot of these wounds come out of cultural distortions. I talk about this in my book, how the

Lian (50:51)

Hmmmm

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

John Wadsworth (51:18)

And the distortion of Virgo is a kind of Puritanism or the Protestant work ethic or, you know, work hard and you'll go to heaven or, you know, stay pure and then God will love you or something, you know, when actually this is really about a much deeper creative, you know, creative energy. I see Virgo as the kind of creatrix of the zodiac in a way that she's so in touch with her body.

Lian (51:22)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Mmm. ⁓

John Wadsworth (51:48)

so in touch with her body's rhythms and cycles and so in touch with her own embodied being that she knows how and when to act and to be able to make very ⁓ precise, insightful and intuitive moves.

Lian (52:06)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (52:07)

But the wound here, when we're wounded in this place, we don't feel that we have any control over the world, over the body. So my wound signature here is I don't have control over my own body.

Lian (52:21)

Mmm.

Gosh, yeah. And it feels, I know I've done a lot of work with women and that feels as though it's such a common wound for women in particular. It may well be for men in particular. It's just so much my work in this area has been with women. The story of Vasilisa the Beautiful comes to mind. Are you familiar with that story and the way that…

she has a doll which is kind of like her instinct and intuition and it kind of does the task. It's a very, it's a very Virgo archetypal story actually in many different ways. There's lots of kind of like sorting one thing from another. But there is this kind of opening to trust that intuitive, instinctive wisdom that gets the task done. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (52:58)

No, no, no, Yeah, yeah, that's it. And it's trusting that your body, you're trusting that you know how to do things as well. And then it's life as a practice, lived as a practice, lived as a ceremony. Virgo is the ceremonialist of the zodiac, the ritualist, the one who knows what to do, when to do it, has the timing. But that's from a deep, deep knowing of the body. So when there's a wound here, it's like we feel very disempowered in the body.

Lian (53:24)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm. That really makes sense. My descendants in Virgo and it feels as though it feels kind of like more like a memory than it does a kind of active wound I mean in this lifetime, interestingly. What is...

John Wadsworth (53:48)

So the. We can be very over critical in Virgo as well. That's the thing. We can be incredibly critical of ourselves, of others, and intolerant of when things are not exactly as we want them. But that again comes out of this word of not being in control, of feeling in control of our own body and our own lives. So the medicine here is, I discern what is essential to my wellbeing and it becomes my practice.

Lian (54:11)

Mmm.

Yes. Mmm gosh yeah such a such needed medicine really is so if I dare let's go on to Libra and given how much I've got in Libra this could be painful.

John Wadsworth (54:31)

Lever, okay. So Libra is the first sign of the zodiac where you're actually meeting a sign, we're now meeting a sign opposite to one we've already encountered. The first six signs are a kind of, in a way I call them the first, the six signs of personal mastery. And then the next six, the second round of the wheel, we now have to reconcile that now with how that meets the other. So we're now bringing this sense of otherness into it. So Libra really,

Lian (54:45)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (55:03)

archetypally is all about otherness, all about relationship, all about opposition, all about what happens when we look in the mirror or when somebody else comes into our life and the recognition that they're a mirror of us in some way. So Librans are often comparing and contrasting themselves with others and their impulses to relate, to be related, to enter into relationship. You know, it's ruled by Venus. It's very much about beauty.

Lian (55:27)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (55:33)

Now, Venus was also the ruler of Taurus, which is very much about embodiment, sensuality, connection with nature and connection with the senses. In Libra, it's a more aesthetic kind of beauty. It's a beauty that's linked to proportion, harmony, tone, sound, because it's to do with the air. It's an air element. So it's about agreement. It's about making agreement. It's about things being in accord, being in agreement. so it's a beauty which is to do with a

Lian (55:52)

Hmm. ⁓

John Wadsworth (56:02)

kind of beauty which is also connected with balance. but there's a sense with Libra of, and this is often the case with the sun in Libra because the sun is in a very strong place in Aries, is, because it represents the rising sun, whereas Libra is the setting sun or it's the autumn time, where the sun in a way is compromised in a way. And therefore has to, it's beautiful because the beautiful colours of autumn, the beautiful colours of the sunset, you know, where the colour spectrum is revealed. So again, Libra is an artist really in that sense. But the wound is often around the relationship. How do I second guess what you want? So the wound here is if I don't,

Lian (56:32)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (57:01)

If I don't give you what you want, you'll leave me. If I don't look the way you want me to look, you'll turn away from me.

Lian (57:05)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (57:13)

If I don't reflect back to you what you want to see, you'll reject me.

Lian (57:20)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (57:21)

Like that. It's a beauty wound.

Lian (57:23)

Yeah, that's so weird that you've You just gave me chills. The course I'm leading right now is all about the beauty wound. It's like literally called.

John Wadsworth (57:24)

It's a beauty wound and a relationship wound.

really? Wow.

Lian (57:39)

wonder how I came to be doing that as work. Well, you said earlier about you felt like when you saw that book of Aries, it was like reading your own personal diary. I feel like you've been taking a peek in mine. It's a bit too personal. But yes, I can somewhat relate to what you've just said. And it's

John Wadsworth (57:44)

Interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah

Lian (58:08)

I feel like I'm at the place in my journey where to a large extent I have alchemized that wound and of course that is why now it's, you know, it's become medicine that I'm serving to others. But, ⁓ and I feel it's not, you know, it's seen not as a wonderful position for the sun to be, but I feel as though I've kind of like made my home here now and it feels as though it's something.

Yeah, I feel blessed to be again, because I've got all those five planets all kind of doing their thing in Libra. There's a lot in the seventh house as well. ⁓ Everything you've spoken about is just feels like, yes, that's been my life in short. And yeah, it's it's so so focused on other on union on balance on on harmony. And yeah.

Everything you said.

John Wadsworth (59:07)

Well, the medicine here is I come in peace, I walk in beauty, and I choose the middle path.

Lian (59:15)

⁓ yes, yeah couldn't have said that better. Thank you. I feel like that was for me personally but I appreciate it.

John Wadsworth (59:21)

Which brings us to Scorpio. That was for you then. So Scorpio takes us deeper to a back into the water element again. But this time we're at a crisis point in the zodiac because we've now reached a point where we have to confront death, loss, the end of the illusion of our personal ownership of things because here in the seasonal cycle we've moved through the autumn period with the sun in Libra into that. Well, we're in the autumn period now but

Lian (59:50)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (59:58)

where we had all those beautiful colours of the leaves turning colour, we now have to face them falling from the trees and starting to rot back into the ground. So in a way, Scorpio is the composting phase of the year. And the impulse is to go down and in and deep into the soil, into the ground, into the underworld. And so here's where the, this is the shadow.

Lian (1:00:07)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:00:28)

the shadow sign in a way, or the sign of where we have to face the truth of who we are, not just the glory of who we are, or the impression of who we are, but actually the deeper truth, which means that we have to face death. We have to look at death, we have to look death in the face. And we don't want to do that, our culture doesn't want to do that generally, we're not well educated in the West.

Lian (1:00:31)

Hmm.

Mmm. ⁓

John Wadsworth (1:00:57)

unlike every other culture for which it's a central teaching, right? I it's like the most important thing you could do.

Lian (1:01:00)

Mm. Yeah. And every culture that's gone before this modern one. Mm. Mm.

John Wadsworth (1:01:06)

Yeah, it's just ours, isn't it? So distorted. so, you know, this is so Scorpio often gets a bad press because of that, because actually Scorpio is like, no, I want to know the truth. don't want I don't know. I'm interested in this facade. I'm not interested in you looking good. I'm not interested in you. You know, I'm interested in what in what actually, you know, what your your deepest and darkest.

Lian (1:01:22)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:01:33)

desires are, what your fears are, what makes you who you are. So a scorpio will mistrust what is shown to them and will want to penetrate beneath the surface. And you can feel that in that time in the autumn when the nights really start to draw in like a dark cloak around you and you kind of feel that. It's the beginning of the winter, it's sawen, it's the place where the veil is thin.

Lian (1:01:42)

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:02:02)

between the worlds, you know, there's almost like a haunting of the closeness of the other world to our world. And there's so much, there are so many riches to be found there, but we have to be prepared to let go, deeply let go of our attachments. Because Taurus, on the opposite side, is like, well, I like what I've got, it's all lovely, and I don't want to let go of it. And Scorpio's like, yeah, but you ain't got no choice because you can't take it with you when you die, you know.

Lian (1:02:08)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Let it go!

John Wadsworth (1:02:32)

So, yeah. when the Scorpio, there can be, when the Scorpio part of us is really wounded, there's a kind of saboteur at play. In the shadow of Scorpio is a kind of treachery, where we will pull another person down and pull ourselves down in the process, just because it's the kind of urge to just go down.

Lian (1:02:35)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:03:01)

So the Scorpio wounds, what I came up with for the Scorpio wound is I belong to the underworld.

Lian (1:03:10)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:03:14)

which is, you know.

Lian (1:03:14)

Yeah. which I guess comes in this like ultimately like a sort of ⁓ mistrust of oneself. Mistrust of life, others, but oneself. Hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:03:28)

Yeah, a mistrust of life, isn't it? It's a mistrust of the goodness of life. It's like everything's rotten. It's black pill territory, isn't it? It's like everything's rotten. There's no hope. There's a hopelessness in it. Which I think if you're plunging down into the dark, kind of, it's almost like, well, you can lose sight of, when you're just immersed in it, you can lose sight of.

Lian (1:03:37)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:03:59)

of why you're doing it even or of what it's for and you just feel that pull down, know, so it can take a person into some... But sometimes that's a necessary, you know, it's the wounded place. So it comes out of the distortion of the not... You know, the fact that we're not educated or encouraged to look at the darkness. So we haven't integrated it into life, you know, Scorpio...

Lian (1:04:14)

Mmm.

Yes, for sure.

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:04:27)

reminds us it comes, it doesn't come at the end of the cycle, it comes at two thirds of the way through. It's like, it's a portal within a greater cycle of life, like death is a doorway. Birth and death are two doorways within a greater cycle of life, as I see it. This is the doorway of death, which ultimately, of course, is a rebirth. As we see when we get to Sagittarius, which brings us back.

Lian (1:04:39)

Mmm.

Yes, yeah.

⁓ So the medicine of Scorpio.

John Wadsworth (1:04:53)

Medicine is… I face my own shadow and in so doing I honour the depth of my soul.

Lian (1:05:00)

Mmm, beautiful.

onwards.

John Wadsworth (1:05:03)

So that brings us to Sagittarius, which is the restoring of hope. In the Christian calendar, this is Advent. This is the Advent period where those three major I followed the start of Bethlehem. There's something that happens, although we're still going further into the winter, we're no longer plunging. The darkness isn't accelerating like it was.

Lian (1:05:07)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:05:32)

in Scorpio because now there's a tailing off. The days are still getting shorter, but at a decelerating rate because actually the solstice is going to recover. And if you're paying attention to the light-dark balance in the year, ⁓ as an astronomer or an astrologer or a priest would, who's watching the heavens and paying attention, they would have that insight or that knowledge that actually the sun will return, the light.

Lian (1:05:41)

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:06:01)

And that's the impulse in Sagittarius is that the light will come back, the light will return. And I love that the word advent is the beginning of the word adventure as well. And I think it's linked, directly linked to the word adventure, which of course is a Sagittarian keyword, which is like the adventure of life. in the life cycle model I work with, is originally conceived by A.T. Mann, the astrologer.

Lian (1:06:11)

Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:06:29)

He said that, know, Scorpio represents death in the zodiac, but then Sagittarius is conception. So the life force is being reconceived in the dark, like a rekindling of an inner fire, a philosopher's fire. Yes, the rekindling of the philosopher's fire. So it inspires hope, faith and belief.

Lian (1:06:37)

Hmm...

yeah all of that beautiful

John Wadsworth (1:06:53)

And also a kind of freedom from death as well in a way, of what's beyond death, that we fly free beyond. So when this is wounded though, the wound in circuitous is I'm not believed.

Lian (1:06:53)

Yeah

Mmm.

Yeah, beautiful.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:07:10)

And it often expresses as a kind of fundamentalism as well. Because if we don't feel that we believe, have to push our belief. more and more, you I'm not believed. You know, what if there's no God?

Lian (1:07:22)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:07:27)

another part of it. What if there's no

Lian (1:07:29)

Yeah, it's, I really felt that. think I've tended, because I've got, as you know, my Jupiter conjunct Neptune in Sagittarius and I can really feel so much of what you've shared here. And I think I, if know how we were talking about, there can be kind of one shadow expression or the other end. And I think instead of sort of, turning into that kind of more sort of evangelical, you know, this is what you must believe. I think my pattern has been more to kind of go inwards and not actually share what I believe. That's been a real practice to, to express what I believe and to kind of like be. And I think also, because I've got the opposition with Saturn, so my genetune and Gibbter are opposite Saturn and so it's kind of felt like a real journey for me, kind of between those two. So yeah, we don't have time to kind of go deep on any of these, I know, and I keep thinking we need to go through these also. I want to reflect as I go because so much of what saying has personal meaning. But on to the medicine.

John Wadsworth (1:08:42)

I know the way, I'm guided by the stars, and I trust that my aim is true.

Lian (1:08:50)

⁓ I love that. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:08:52)

And that brings us to Capricorn, which is a serious business. get to Capricorn. know, Sagittarius is ruled by Jupiter, so it's very much about amplification, expansion, optimism, the increase of light, the philosopher's fire, all of that. And then in Capricorn, it all gets real, because we now hit the solstice, the winter solstice point, you know, this turning.

Lian (1:08:52)

Okay.

Grrrr

John Wadsworth (1:09:18)

is Saturn's territory. So this is about, okay, you've come here to do something with your life. So what are you doing about it? It's accountability, it's integrity, it's commitment, it's purpose, it's the energy of purpose. And we feel the weight of that like a burden. Capricons often feel, you know, weighed down by the weight of responsibility.

Lian (1:09:41)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:09:46)

If you've got a strong Saturn, people with a strong Saturn that's really dominant in a chart will feel that they have to step up, be responsible, and maybe take the blame as well. Sometimes there's a lot of guilt often that goes with this, and melancholy often comes in with Saturn as well. There's a burden, there's a weight. It's like, I'm carrying the responsibility of the family or the expectation that's placed on me.

Lian (1:10:01)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:10:17)

from the family or just the expectation that we place on ourselves. Like I'm supposed to do something with my life, know. And that can feel heavy. And so the wound of Capricorn has a lot to do with the scapegoat archetype. So I'm to blame. It's my fault. I have to atone for what I've done.

Lian (1:10:22)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Mmm. Ouch. Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:10:44)

be like that and that can be somebody yeah ouch yeah it's a bit different isn't it because it because with Leo we were looking more at shame which is a wound of being you know I'm I don't have the right or Aries I don't have the right to be here with with Capricorn it's got more to do with what we've done or what we you know it's got done or not done which is to do with guilt well I did this I got this wrong

Lian (1:10:56)

Mmm.

Yes or not done. Yes.

John Wadsworth (1:11:12)

I didn't meet, reach the standard, didn't pass the test. And so now I have to redo that or I have to get better or, you know, I mean, that's obviously a big cultural theme, the standards that we're supposed to reach, the goals that we're meant to reach. And then not feeling good enough, which is more of an earthy wound. find that wound in the three earth signs around not feeling good enough, not feeling that we...

Lian (1:11:22)

Hmm. ⁓

For sure.

Mmm.

Hmm. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:11:40)

have the ability, which can be a Virgo thing, or we haven't reached the standard or passed the test. Or we've done something wrong, and we have to like, atone. that's the basis of Christianity. It's like original sin, isn't it?

Lian (1:11:46)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah, so the medicine, the much needed medicine.

John Wadsworth (1:11:58)

So, yeah. The much needed medicine here is ⁓

I carry the wisdom of the elders and the strength to complete the task I'm set.

Lian (1:12:12)

Mmm,

Mm. Yeah, I really feel that. Mm.

John Wadsworth (1:12:15)

really carries that old medicine. I this is why the initiates like Christ and Mithras and, you know, there's this tradition that the initiate of the age of the spiritual initiate is born into this sign, Capricorn, because they carry the wisdom. It's sometimes called the gateway of spirit, the Capricorn gateway.

Lian (1:12:28)

Yeah,

yeah, gorgeous. Okay, penultimate wound.

John Wadsworth (1:12:37)

Aquarius. Aquarius is back into the air element again, and it's also traditionally evolved by Saturn, but also in modern astrology by Uranus. there's this. So Aquarius breaks out of the mold.

Lian (1:12:47)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:12:49)

There's still there's still control here in Aquarius, but it's the control of ideas. It's got to do with the way ideas form, the way they constellate, the way that they the way that the mind it's to do with systems and networks of thinking.

Lian (1:12:55)

Mm-hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:13:07)

so Aquarians are very, tuned in to, to the network, to the matrix, to the system, to the, to the, to the forms of the invisible world, the template, the template of life. I sometimes call it the wiring under the board, you know, how it's all connected together in ways that we can't see, right? How, you know, it's all of that.

Lian (1:13:21)

Mmm.

Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:13:33)

We were talking about telepathy earlier, this idea that there's a way that we communicate that

very intuitive, very… It's that tuning in, that raising of the vibration, that hope that we have for the future of where we can all live more in harmony with one another. It's very connected to community, it's very connected to… this kind of idealism can be a kind of utopianism with Aquarius as well.

Lian (1:14:03)

Hmm. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:14:05)

You know, so we create and it's very connected to technology as well and to, you know, mean, we've got Pluto in Aquarius now, which I think is showing us some of the shadow, some of the shadow utopias, right? This idea of like, oh, we can all live, we can all live, but it's got to be deep enough, you know, like a Scorpio is often very suspicious of an Aquarian with their fine ideas because Scorpio go, yeah, but have you gone deep enough?

Lian (1:14:27)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:14:35)

you're just bypassing, you know. Whereas Aquarius, we need the hope that Aquarius brings. Sagittarius and Aquarius both bring a kind of hope, but Sagittarius brings it more in the sort of questing fiery form, and Aquarius brings it in the more idealistic or ideological form of like, if we organize ourselves in this way with these principles and values and ethics, then we can all live better together as a society. ⁓ So it's very much a societal.

Lian (1:14:36)

Mmm.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:15:05)

community wound as well.

Lian (1:15:06)

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:15:08)

But it's a lot to do with seeing as well and perceiving, but perceiving in a wider systemic way.

Lian (1:15:17)

Mmm. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:15:18)

And often with Aquarius, we feel that we are not part of the community, are not part of society because we're so different. And I always talk about Aquarius as the difference, the difference that we are and the difference that we make. But that arises out of feeling different, feeling at odds or feeling like we're not, we don't quite fit in or it's not quite the belonging. It's not the same as the belonging in cancer, which is more of an emotional experience. It's a bit, it's feeling like, like our ideas are accepted.

Lian (1:15:26)

Hmm.

Hmm. ⁓

John Wadsworth (1:15:49)

within the wider whole within the system. So the wound with, yeah.

Lian (1:15:49)

Yes, yeah.

That really makes sense.

So I was about to say my, I've always had this kind of kindred spirit feeling with Aquarius, people who have a lot of Aquarius. I've got, as you know, I've got a Uranus conjunct Sun and I've got my Mars and North node in Aquarius. And so I guess I've got a healthy dollop of.

John Wadsworth (1:16:14)

Yeah, right.

Lian (1:16:18)

Aquarian in me. But that sort of sense of being other being different being weird. I see that so much in others. And I suppose the Libra in me is kind of like always looking to others for the mirror and always just have this a real sense of just love and appreciation for those kind of out and proud Aquarian scene of the world is just like, yes, we need you. Sorry, carry on.

John Wadsworth (1:16:19)

Yeah

Mm.

Aquarians are tending to the group. Leo is tending to the heart, to the self, the passion. Whereas Aquarius is tending to the circle, to the periphery. Aquarius really comes in at the periphery. Whereas Leo comes in at the center. Leo is like the burning heart. Whereas Aquarius is sort of the cool witnessing.

Lian (1:16:51)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

John Wadsworth (1:17:12)

From the edge, from the periphery. So Aquarians often feel like they're at the periphery. So it's paradoxical, it's the sign of community and yet Aquarians will always feel like they're slightly outside of the thing that they kind of instigate in a way. So the wound here is, I'm in exile.

Lian (1:17:17)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Mm.

Yeah, for sure. And sorry, I interrupt you as you about to the wound.

John Wadsworth (1:17:32)

Yeah, I'm in exile. I'm, you know, I'm one removed from the community. So it's a belonging but a level of ideas or not belonging rather, a level of ideas. And it can, I mean, we haven't had time to go into this, but I also talk about, there's a way of looking at personality disorder related to the zodiac. And with Aquarius, it can lead to a kind of dissociation. Like I'm so different that I'm so we can tend to dissociate in Aquarius a bit when the wound is very strong. And but the medicine here is is around remembering that that we are ⁓ bringing that light to the world in a way. And as the water bearer as well, I enable the waters of life to flow in service of humanity's highest vision.

Lian (1:18:30)

⁓ gorgeous. Okay. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So onward to our last one Pisces.

John Wadsworth (1:18:32)

So we can feel the responsibility again, like we felt with responsibility in Capricorn. But here it's at a level of ideas, right, with Aquarius being an S.

Finally, last but not least, Pisces, where it all dissolves back into the dream. Because in a query, it's like a sort of crystalline grid. You'd think, well, this would be a good place to finish where everything is perfectly aligned ideologically. But actually, it all has to dissolve again back into the dream from where it all emerged. so Pisces is like the that feeling of feeling connected to everything.

Lian (1:19:00)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:19:14)

and feeling the pain of the world, feeling the suffering of the world, but also being able to dissolve into the bliss of deep connection as well. So Pisces feels everything. But also because there's so much suffering in the world, Pisces feels all the suffering of the world. And so often it's just too much. escape. the shadow of Pisces is a kind of escapism. I just want to escape from the suffering. can't deal with it. So turn to the bottle or to the pills or whatever, you know, to escape it or to want to dissolve into it as well, like a psychedelic experience of wanting to just, you know, journey into the mystic, into the mystical. Pisces is the most mystical sign. It's the hardest one to talk about, really. Hardest one to find.

Lian (1:19:48)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:20:12)

Words for because words will never do do it justice and yet it's also the sign of the poet as well. but poetry carries a different quality to to ordinary writing or prose because it it doesn't explain things. It takes you deeper into the mystery. Good poetry does anyway. Takes you deeper into the mystery of of existence and of being and so on. So

Lian (1:20:19)

Hmm, yes.

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:20:41)

So that's really the Piscean way is to surrender. The pathway is one of surrender. But the wound, you know, it's all too much. I'm overwhelmed by it all. I'm just overwhelmed by all of it. Can't cope. Can't cope. You know, the personality disorder is the dependent.

Lian (1:20:59)

Mmm.

Hmm. ⁓

John Wadsworth (1:21:10)

the dependent, just collapsing. When we're really wounded in this, we just kind of collapse.

Lian (1:21:20)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:21:21)

But the medicine is to remember that we are connected to all of it, actually, and that's just how it is. We're all entangled. I'm entangled with you, you're entangled with everyone around you. We're all caught in the same current, on the same stream. And we're sort of tied like the fishes, karmically to one another, but pulled along the same current.

Lian (1:21:31)

Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:21:51)

And I think that when we realize that, it allows the compassion to arise in us. Because the medicine of Pisces ⁓ is really compassion. The medicine of compassion. And compassion comes out of a recognition of the suffering that we share.

Lian (1:21:58)

Hmm.

Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:22:10)

rather than feeling overwhelmed or responsible for it or pulled down by it, we just recognise that it's something that we share. And the origin of the words passion is actually suffering, means suffering. Which is interesting, isn't it? We don't think of it meaning that, because like the passion of Christ, it means the suffering of Christ on the cross, you know, and it's, and there's something of that, but that suffering also inspires us to want to heal, or want to, it brings us back to healing again, you know, so passion that arises then again in Aries.

Lian (1:22:17)

Hmm.

wow. ⁓ Yeah. Hmm. Of course. ⁓Mmm.

John Wadsworth (1:22:41)

as we come back to life, is that passion to return to that condition of oneness. I mean, it's this juxtaposition of passion and compassion, of the will to individuate and become ourselves and the surrender back into the oneness, which is Pisces Medicine.

Lian (1:23:03)

Yeah, Jonathan, the co-founder of Be Mythical, he's a Pisces son. I you've described it, you know, you and I have got the Pisces ascendant, but he takes that to a whole, you know, his whole life is kind of learning how to be with suffering and to kind of alchemize it into something beyond that, something beautiful. And yeah.

So what's the mantra of Pisces?

John Wadsworth (1:23:31)

I am not separate.

I'm one with all beings.

Lian (1:23:37)

Mmm, gorgeous. And in some ways, perhaps the medicine for all of us. Wonderful. yeah. yeah

John Wadsworth (1:23:45)

It's the oneness. It's the oneness. That's what we feel with Pisces, the oneness. all want to, you know, at some level we all want to, if we can surrender into that as a practice, not like completely all the time, but you know, as a practice, that's a very good practice. And I think all of these, I say in my book, you know, that it's not whatever sign we are, if we can enter fully into each of these gate, 12 gateways.

Lian (1:23:59)

Hmm.

Yeah.

John Wadsworth (1:24:15)

as a practice, then we can remember what it is to be whole, because we carry all of these with us. Some of them are more pertinent to us in that some of them are more problematic, or some of them we need to do a little more work on, or we need to dig a bit deeper to get to the medicine. yeah, it's a complete cycle of life.

Lian (1:24:37)

Gorgeous. Well, thank you so much. This has been, it's a longer episode than usual, but it needed that. And I'm really glad that we've been able to kind of give the space to really go through each one of them. So profound. Yes. Forget the other.

John Wadsworth (1:24:52)

Once we started we had to finish. We couldn't stop halfway, could we? This is always the thing, mate.

Lian (1:25:00)

the other six. I suppose we could have done a part one and part two, but we're to come back and do a part two on a different, well, not necessarily a completely different topic, but a semi different topic. But this has been, yeah, such a pleasure, such a pleasure for me personally. And I'm sure for listeners too, speaking of which, where can listeners find out more about you and your wonderful work?

John Wadsworth (1:25:21)

My website is kairosastrology.co.uk. I've got courses. run a two-year program, astrology training, first year foundation where you're just really diving into your own chart. You study your own chart for a whole year and you really learn the earth chart interpretation. got a new course starting in October for that and then ⁓ have a second year for people who want to go on to professional practice, which is the diploma year, which is accredited. So it's proper training. And then I also run workshops, courses, pilgrimages, which we maybe talk about next time. I run tours to Egypt also, tours of Egypt.

Lian (1:26:07)

Wonderful, which maybe, I mean it might be that we're suddenly shown a different topic entirely

but it may be ancient Egypt that we focus on next time. So I'm very much looking forward to that. Thank you so much, John. This has been such a

John Wadsworth (1:26:15)

Great. Brilliant. Yeah, that was real pleasure. Really enjoyed it. Yeah.

Lian (1:26:26)

I very much hope you enjoyed watching that and if you did and you're not already subscribed then do hit that bell thingy and subscribe to automatically get each fresh new episode as it's released each week. If you'd like to find out more about the work we do at Be Mythical to guide and support old souls in this new world to live their own unique myth… Do hop along to bemythical.com and you'll find out all the ways you can join us and go deeper with us on your own mythical journey.

Lots of love for now.

See you again next week.

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