Unlock the soul secrets hidden in your voice - Barbara McAfee

Self IlluminationEmbodimentrewildingspirit
Written By Lian Brook-Tyler

Episode 537, released 26th February 2026.

Barbara McAfee, voice coach and author, explores how your voice carries early silence, family secrecy, cultural training, and unrealised gifts in the body, and how working directly with sound can restore range, authority, and emotional truth.

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Or if you prefer to read: Scroll right down for the transcript

Barbara is a voice coach, author, speaker, and performer, with over 30 years of experience helping people unlock their full voice through practical vocal techniques and tools for authentic, flexible self expression.

In this episode, Lian and Barbara, explore voice as the muscle of the soul, something physical and behavioural that reveals where we have been silenced, where we adapted, and where we still hold unused range - not just vocal but all kinds of aspects of us. Barbara reflects on growing up as a secret keeper, how silence shaped her early sound, and how her voice expanded beyond what she believed possible through the Roy Hart lineage.

Together they consider archetypes as living forces, energies looking for a job, and how older cultures worked with them through ritual, invocation, and sound. They look at the Five Elements as a living map of vocal expression, how earth, fire, water, metal, and air each carry distinct qualities in the body, and how landscape, gender, and class shape which of these we are permitted to use.

Lian offers herself as a live example, including how partial deafness affects volume and self perception, before they experiment with laughter, yawns, and the awkward freedom of taking up more sonic space than feels polite.

Listen if you notice your voice shifting depending on who you are with, like you become softer with authority, sharper with family, or uncertain about how loud you really are, and wonder what your truest, fullest expression might be.

We’d love to know what YOU think about this week’s show. Let’s carry on the conversation…  please leave a comment below.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • Why suppressed parts of you often show up as missing range, pitch, or volume in the voice

  • How landscape, culture, and gender subtly train which vocal qualities feel safe to use

  • What happens when you treat voice as a set of movable elements rather than a fixed identity

Resources and stuff spoken about:

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Thank you!
Lian & Jonathan

Episode Transcript:

Please note: We are a small team and not able to check through the transcript our software provides. So you may find some words are out of place and a few sentences don’t make complete sense. If you do see something utterly ridiculous we’d love you to let us know so we can correct it. Please email any howlers with the time stamp to team@bemythical.com.

Lian (00:00)

Could your voice be carrying secrets, your mind has long forgotten? Hello, my beautiful soul seekers. This week, I'm joined by Barbara McAfee, a voice coach and author to explore how our voice carries early silence, family secrecy, cultural training, and unrealised gifts. And how working directly with sound can restore range, authority, and emotion, and perhaps more.

But first, if you've just arrived here, welcome. If you've come back, welcome home. And if you keep finding yourself here without subscribing, your soul clearly knows what it's doing. Go ahead, honour that call and subscribe. Barbara is a voice coach, author, speaker, and performer with over 30 years of experience helping people to unlock their full voice through practical vocal techniques and tools for authentic, flexible self-expression.

Together we explore voice as the muscle of the soul. I love that so much. Something physical and behavioural that reveals where we have been silenced, where we adapted and where we still hold unused range, not just vocally, but perhaps in all kinds of other deeper aspects of ourselves. Barbara reflects on growing up as a secret keeper, how silence shaped her early sound. and how her voice expanded beyond what she believed possible through the Roy Hart lineage. We consider archetypes as living forces, energies looking for a job, and how older cultures worked with them through ritual invocation and sound.

We look at the five elements as a living map of vocal expression, how earth, fire, water, metal and air each carry distinct qualities in the body and how landscape, gender and class shape which of these we feel permitted to use. a live example. including sharing how my partial deafness affects my perception of volume. And we experiment with laughter, yawns, and that awkward freedom of taking up much more sonic space than feels polite and normal. So listen, if you notice your voice shifting depending on who you're with, like perhaps you become softer with authority, sharper with family, or uncertain about how loud you really are, and… find yourself wondering what your truest, fullest expression might be. And before we jump into all of that wonderful stuff, it's challenging to live in this crazy modern world. The wild sovereign soul path is what we know will help.

And so if you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path and your heart longs for guidance, kinship and support, Come join us in Unio, the community for soul seekers. Unio is the living home for the wild, sovereign soul path where together we reclaim our wildness, actualise our sovereignty and awaken our souls. You can discover more and walk with us by hopping on over to BeMythical.com/unio or click the link in the description.

And if you're feeling called to go even deeper on your wild sovereign soul path, come join us for the upcoming wild sovereign soul course a three month immersive and mystery journey into becoming a wild sovereign soul. Register your interest at BeMythical.com/wss And now back to this week's episode. Let's dive in.

Lian (03:39)

Hello Barbara, welcome to the show.

Barbara McAfee (03:42)

Thank you so much, Lian It's good to be here.

Lian (03:45)

it's so good to have you here. As I was saying, there is such clear alignment for the work that you do and the work that we do. And I just cannot wait to explore all of that with you. But I want to start at the beginning. And what I would love to know is it my senses, the soul kind of starts to speak really early on right back in childhood for well.

I would say all of us, whether we're aware of it or not. So for you, thinking back to your childhood, what would you say is the way that your soul was speaking to you about sound? Way back then, about voice, about sound, what were you aware of looking back that was already being shown to you?

Barbara McAfee (04:31)

Mm.

I think, like many people who are doing healing work, I think my soul was actually being tested by silence, by secrets. I'm a secret keeper in my family. I blew it all open in my 20s. So in a way, I think I was driven inside to my own… voice inside to say you need to stay safe and stay quiet. And it sounds a lot worse than it was, actually. You know what I mean? wasn't, it wasn't, I've heard so many stories of my work over the years that were.

Lian (05:10)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (05:21)

hair-raising of how people were raised. But that, I think, was the crucible for my finding my own voice because I felt like I didn't really have it in a big part of my life. I did theater with some little girlfriends. I directed a play when I was in sixth grade and I refused to have any teachers involved, which they would never do now.

Lian (05:34)

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (05:50)

did have these moments of bravery and expression right next to these secrets. And I think those things really helped form this soul that I am and the work that I bring.

Lian (06:08)

Hmm.

Yes, that really makes sense. So often what we can see looking backwards is in some ways an inversion or a challenge to be the thing that we're destined to be. And so it's actually the absence of the thing that we're most present to. So it really makes sense. Talking about that, I know that in your work, just the same as in ours, there is this understanding that so often our greatest medicine is found in our deepest wounds and it's to go into those wounds that is to allow that to be alchemised into medicine first for ourselves and then for the world. I would love to hear your sense of that through this idea of voice particularly and how those themes of wound and you know medicine stroke kind of soul expression work as far as you're concerned when it comes to voice.

Barbara McAfee (07:09)

my goodness, well, how many hours do we have? It does seem to be like...

Lian (07:11)

Well I said we might need to come back and do another episode.

Barbara McAfee (07:19)

so many things. I am a great lover of the work of Jung. I've not studied formally, but his work had so much to do with this work that I do. We go into, particularly I like his work around the shadow and the collective unconscious and archetypes, that there are these energies floating around looking for a job. And I think our ancestors kept those archetypes busier.

Lian (07:24)

Mm-hmm, snap.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Barbara McAfee (07:49)

than we do, you know, with ritual and celebration and invocation, which is etymologically about bringing the sacred into the world through our voices. That is the etymology of invocation, which has the same Latin root as voice. Isn't that something?

Lian (07:50)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Barbara McAfee (08:13)

and vocation and advocacy. our voices are linked to our work in the world, the sacred, to advocacy for using our voices in service to other people. I think that's so interesting that the voice is, you tug on voice and you open up this huge root system.

Lian (08:32)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (08:40)

into all these other areas of life, which is so interesting because we don't really attend to voice much. This is why I'm doing, you know, writing books and training people and doing podcasts because it's this powerhouse of deep healing, but also just practical life stuff, you know, that we're trying to connect with other people.

Lian (08:48)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (09:07)

in our families, our workplaces, our communities, and so often our voice is interfering with our connection to other people, but also to ourselves because we're all living in a story that is much smaller than what's true based on trauma, culture, fill in the blanks. So I don't even know if I answered your question. Did I answer your question?

Lian (09:33)

I just had that thought. was like wow I love everything you've said and I've got about five questions that follow up from that and I was like hang on did she actually answer my question? I don't feel you did actually so I'm going to give you another bite of the cherry. From the lens of voice why it might our greatest medicine be held in our deepest wounds? Why voice in particular? Why that lens of voice in particular?

Barbara McAfee (09:43)

Okay, hit me again, hit me again. Okay, okay. I believe, I'll give it a try. I believe that we all come here with gifts to give. That's why we come. And the voice is a primary way that those gifts can come out into the world. There are connections between our voices and our gifts that I have seen to be innate. And I can talk a little bit more about the why, the how that looks. And so...

Lian (10:16)

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (10:31)

The suppressed gifts often show up in the voice as well. So for example, one of my challenges with my voice was I didn't think it could go very high. I naturally have a deep voice. I'm a very tall woman. I'm meter 86 or six foot two, depending on your scale.

Lian (10:52)

Gosh.

Barbara McAfee (10:54)

I'm a giant and I come from tall people with low voices. That is a quality that we have in our family. So some of it is just physiology.

And I had an ironclad story that I could not go above this note, which isn't that high. This is back in my 20s when I met my teachers from the Roy Hart Center in the south of France. They came to Minneapolis where I was living. And that was the truth. That was the absolute truth. I didn't have anything above here. There was silence. And in my first workshop with these amazing teachers that I continued to work with for quite some time, I don't know if you can hear that, almost to the top of the piano. And I wasn't myself when I did that. I was a bird. There's the archetype. I was the screaming bird.

Lian (11:44)

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (11:47)

That blew my story apart. No one had ever asked me for all the sound I had most of my life. It was like, you quiet down? Can you blend with the alter section? Can you be a nice girl? Can you not be mad? All the things. And so it was radical to have somebody say, let's keep going. And if the voice goes, know, it's okay. It's sound. It's not speaking. It's not singing. It's sound way out in the wild.

Lian (12:11)

He

Barbara McAfee (12:17)

And so I started unpacking like where did that where did that story that limit?

originate and I was doing therapy at the time so my voice and my therapeutic journey, my healing has all been tangled up with each other the whole time and what I uncovered is that a lot of that sealing was sourced in those secrets in having to grow up too fast and all of us had to grow up too fast. We got that hell lot of childhood as quickly as we could for various reasons and this is the voice we have when we're little.

Lian (12:31)

you

Barbara McAfee (12:55)

I call this the air voice in my Five Elements framework and the approach I use to the voice. And this one I just didn't have because I'm a tall, smart person from the middle of the United States where we have no space for that kind of nonsense.

And so, so, so many tears, so much grief of that lost innocence, that willing to be light and soft and sweet.

And it got to come home. Now I speak in it, I sing in it, I've welcomed that quality back into my voice that was squashed. And I've watched and supported others who have whole chunks of their...

Lian (13:38)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (13:44)

voice and their personality or their expression as a human being that have been exiled or suppressed. And the beauty of it is it's so ready to come back. No matter how long it's been gone, no matter how horrible the suppression of it, the voice is so generous. It's willing to come back.

Lian (13:57)

Mmm.

Then you answered it. So I'm reminded of just before we started recording, you quoted and I'll invite you to correct me on the exact quote, but something along the lines of the voice is the muscle of the soul. And

Barbara McAfee (14:15)

Yay! So glad.

Lian (14:39)

I felt the embodied truth of that. When you said that, I could feel it viscerally.

So there's a couple of questions here.

I think in part you have answered why that might be the case in what you've just said, but if there's anything else that you want to add to why is the voice the muscle of the soul? Again, I may be paraphrasing horrendously here. And I'm wondering whether, and you alluded to this when you were saying, you we put the archetypes to work far less in this modern age. And I agree with you. So much of our work is also based in archetypes.

And also, I guess you could say that our primal wisdom, our collective inheritance of wisdom, which we're kind of just starting to remember some of us. So do you feel that our long ago ancestors knew this, knew that the voice was the muscle of the soul? And this is something that we're now remembering.

Barbara McAfee (15:43)

You got the quote completely right, so bravo. And one of the ancestors of the work that helped me open my voice is Alfred Wolfson, who was a German Jew who was a stretcher bearer on the Western Front in World War I.

Lian (15:46)

good. Thank you.

Barbara McAfee (16:03)

and basically came back from the war shattered from what he saw and of course and one of the symptoms of that was that he had auditory hallucinations of the screaming of the men and tried a bunch of things to heal himself emotionally and spiritually and out of desperation just started making those sounds himself and it worked.

Lian (16:17)

Mm.

Barbara McAfee (16:30)

And then he started, he escaped to London, he started teaching others to use their voices. Some of them were singers, actors, some were just ordinary people who were interested in reclaiming more of their humanity. that was, he's so, I talk to him a lot. know, Jung is one of the ancestors of this work and Alfred Wolfson, I want to say it was worth it. you know, I tell you, everyone I train, I've trained about 75 people in my Five Elements framework.the world and I always make sure they know how to tell his story to honour him so I want to honour him. So back to your question yes I do believe our ancestors used the archetypal much more and I do think it's a doorway to

Lian (17:04)

you

Barbara McAfee (17:23)

Our wildness, our fullness as human beings and a lot of the approach I use, I use the elements of earth. Fire, water.

Which is the one I was just talking about reclaiming, right? And to open these, we use these archetypes and often they are things we are never supposed to be. Like for Earth, a lot of times, I'll have us be Neanderthals. Or a giant or a troll or an ogre or something, or bear.

And that is so, we're not supposed to be like hairy, heavy, primal, animalistic, right? And so it does help, I open the voice into an exaggerated version first. Because part of it is it's easier to make a big change sometimes than a smaller one. But also It gives us permission.

Lian (18:13)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Barbara McAfee (18:30)

to embody and give voice to parts of ourselves that are not necessarily welcome in quote unquote civilized society. So we get to be, ugh, know, animalistic and maybe a little brash in the fire voice, you know, a little loud. And with water we get to be, you know, emotional, you know, and tender-hearted. And in a metal voice we get to be a little pointy, witchy, you know, or bratty. Mom, I don't want to. And then in the air voice, we get to be airheads. We get to be soft and vulnerable and dreamy and childlike. And so anyway, I feel like that the voice can open these doors to ways of being human that have been suppressed by the dominant culture.

Lian (19:26)

Mmm.

Yeah, I love your embodied examples of those different elements. really they're bringing them to life for me in resonance as you were going through them. So going back to what you were talking about in terms of your own voice and where you come from in America, what I was wondering is if we see that who we are,is made up of a number of different things. There is that kind of pure soul essence. There is our family of origin, our country of origin, things that have happened to us, so on and so forth. From the lens of our voice, how have you seen our particular mother tongue, where we've been raised, like the sort of typical way of speaking accent of that country?

I'd love to know, there, I'm kind of meandering my way to a question, because I kind of wanted to contain all of those ponderings. And then the question I'm to ask is, have you seen that our, can be kind of cultural wounds and gifts associated, like for me being English and having a very kind of quintessentially English voice, would there be a particular, cultural wound I would have around my voice that would be different to someone with your heritage.

Barbara McAfee (21:00)

Absolutely, absolutely. And Language changes how we use our voice. course, know, I'm in a different song in French than I am in American English. So these things influence us so, so much. And I have found

Lian (21:06)

yes, of course, yeah.

Mmm.

Yes.

Barbara McAfee (21:29)

that even the landscape can affect us. So I have noticed that people from mountainous regions like the Balkans, like the Appalachians in the States, the north of China, the Alps in Switzerland, people tend to use their metal voice.

Lian (21:52)

Mmm, ooh.

Barbara McAfee (21:52)

I am a poor, wayfaring stranger. Which is basically the imitation of the bagpipe from the epaulette, the bluegrass of American singing. But there's the Balkan women's choir that I found thrilling, those really bright, flat sounds, that close harmonies. Yodely, yodely, yodely. So there's a.

Lian (22:01)

Mm-hmm.

Barbara McAfee (22:21)

people in the mountains often naturally go to the metal voice because it carries over long distances. So yes, language. I have friends from New York City as well. And you know, they talk fast and they talk up here in their nose and I can hear my friend Jennifer in every room I'm in. You never have trouble hearing Jennifer. And part of it is it's this big noisy place.

Lian (22:27)

Mmm.

hahahahah

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (22:49)

So it's so interesting that connection between language, culture, class, but also landscape.

Lian (23:00)

Yes.

Hmm. that makes so much sense.

I've come to over the years of doing the work that we do is how in our modern culture, we very much think we can relate to archetypes kind of pulled up out of their roots when really these things are always contextual to the land, you know, whether it be archetypes from the myths they're from, which are from the land they were from. And so what you're saying here makes complete sense. All of these things are interconnected.

and so I'd love to ask actually, what would be the, from an elemental perspective, what would be the English voice?

Barbara McAfee (23:44)

there's so many though, darling. You know, there are so many. think, yeah, there are so many because we have personalities as well.

Lian (23:59)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (24:00)

And there's, know, cockney is different than, you know, there's so many different flavours of the English voice. I do think there is more of a value of reserve, which we have in the Midwest where I live, this sense of decorum and reserve and not getting too big or drawing attention to oneself.

Lian (24:08)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (24:27)

And we can find exceptions for every single one of those caricatures in a way. But the culture does kind of form us to be a certain way to be approved. And then we also have gender. And so as women, a lot of us are raised to be in our water, which is connected more to the heart. It's the voice of the heart. And so as women, we're supposed to take care

Lian (24:38)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (24:57)

We're supposed to be empathic. We're supposed to be very kind and nice, which is great until it isn't, until we need to set a boundary. No! Or train a dog. I saw your dog in the background. So, gender has a whole range of ways and to be a good man and the dominant.

Lian (25:12)

I have multiples.

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (25:25)

patriarchal culture is to be dead. You know, don't feel, you don't move, you don't wear color, you don't express. It's getting a little better in some of the generations coming up behind.

Lian (25:31)

Mm-hmm.

Barbara McAfee (25:39)

But that is the cultural norm for men is to be dead. And even like the movies have us seeing like Arnold Schwarzenegger being part man and part robot. It's like, my God, you've got to be kidding. So I think our different class, gender, ethnicity, region.

Lian (25:51)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (26:04)

A lot of things get wrapped around our voices, which are our bodies too. I mean, it's all one big system.

Lian (26:14)

Hmm.

Yes, goodness. I feel like I want to do a whole conversation on each part of this on its own. I feel like every time we get a chance to go somewhere, I'm like, I want to go really deep here, but equally there's lots of other places I'd like to go. gosh, yes, there's so much here. And again, of course, all of these things, if we map voice onto soul, it's no wonder it shows up and is created by all of these different aspects of us.

moving into.for anyone listening to this and having that curiosity of, huh, I wonder what my own voice is telling me. So right now, without having, and what I also find, so I'm just segue here slightly, I'm also recognising, although this is the 12th year, I believe, of this podcast, and having done so many episodes on so many things, related to the soul. I think this might be the first episode we've done on voice. If it isn't, it's certainly a very long time ago since we've done an episode, anything to do with voice, which I find interesting because I can hear everything you're saying. It just reads as true to me. This is so interesting and given my work with, say, for example, shamanism, which so involves the voice in singing and chanting.

Barbara McAfee (27:32)

Yes.

Lian (27:46)

like how is it that this is not something that I've focused on personally or on this show before so there's something interesting in that for me that I actually would like to explore with you in a moment. Before we go there for someone listening to this and I imagine if someone's listening to this they're already on that path of the soul, they're interested in the things that we're talking about. How might they start to look, listen to their own voice and see what's being held back, what's being repressed, the places that they haven't yet been able to express themselves. How would they go about that?

Barbara McAfee (28:31)

Well, I would just invite people, I think this work, these elements, I feel like is the secret decoder ring for the voice. We're paying attention to voices all the time.

Lian (28:42)

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (28:47)

Like if I had come on this podcast and I was talking like this, you know, people are assessing all the time, is this person credible, likable, what, you know, and we are all leaking a lot of information about who we are by the sound of our voice. You know, I could tell that you were not from Alabama.

When you started to speak and you could tell I was not from Devon. You know, it's like we are and are you really? Get out of here. just, are, we we are, we, oh my gosh. Well, what else would you like to know? I just pulled that. It's like, why am I saying Devon? I guess I know why I'm saying Devon. This is happening more and more all the time.

Lian (29:16)

Hmm. I'm actually from Devon. Yeah, that's where I was born.

You

Barbara McAfee (29:39)

Now I've lost complete track of what we were talking about. about where to start. So I think just paying attention to, first of all, your sound, not just your words. And I like to encourage people to get outside of that little voice box that we're all living in. So, ugh, you could just voice your yawn when appropriate. Ugh. And that'll open up your Earth voice.

Lian (30:03)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (30:08)

and sing along with a good rock and roll singer. That'll wake up your fire voice. Or just yell at the person who's cutting you off in traffic, which is one of my favourites.

Lian (30:21)

Use his voice training.

Barbara McAfee (30:24)

You big idiot,

But you know, it's joyful and it can be angry both fire. You know, it's all tangled up in passion and big expression. For water, you could like sing some lullabies or a lot of times people make this sound organically when they hear bad news. A lot of times people put their hand on their heart and they go, no. I'm so sorry. That's the water voice. That's a little, it's warm and flowing and tender. You can laugh like a witch for metal and sigh for air. So these are not far away from our everyday expressions of being a human being. A lot of, and you can also get fire if you stub your toe or burn yourself on the stove. It's like, ow!

Lian (30:52)

you

you

Mm-mm.

Barbara McAfee (31:19)

So a lot of us, we do have access to these, but we don't really have a framework to hang them on, and I made the framework to help. And also to listen. That is fascinating. You could listen to yourself, say like, how do I talk to my dog as opposed to how I talk to my boss or my neighbour?

Lian (31:29)

Mmm. Yes.

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (31:46)

Right? That's those shifts. It's like, I'm holding back a little here. I must not feel comfortable. And I have a friend that I, when we're together, we find each other hilarious and we laugh like witches.

Lian (31:54)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (32:04)

Don't laugh like that with anyone else. That's our language. So to pay attention to your own shifts in your voice, but then also to listen, to say, am I hearing? Most people are a mix. What am I hearing and what might it mean? So for instance, I had a client who saw himself on a video talking about how passionate he was.

Lian (32:06)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (32:34)

And now we know why he came to me. He was passionate, but he was an introvert. And he just...

Lian (32:37)

you

Barbara McAfee (32:44)

He just was an introvert. He was a quiet and steady guy. And so before we got busy changing his voice, which we did, we gave him, we didn't get rid of this voice, we added to it. All of them are good, except when they're terrible. And so, but before we went there, I said, so tell me, are you the person who stays calm when everyone else is losing their minds? And he said, yep.

Barbara McAfee (33:09)

and had a little smile like, she saw me, she saw me. And so I don't use this work to judge people. We don't need more room for judgment, right? There's plenty to go around. But it makes me ask smarter questions. So for the woman, you know, the woman who's talking up here in the air.

Lian (33:25)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (33:32)

I've had a number of clients, I've worked with a lot of young women who are trying to reclaim their full power and their voice. But before we get busy with that, I'll say, so tell me, are you the person who sees the future before everyone else? And they're like, Like this look in their eye, like how did you know? Like how did you know Devon, right? It's like, ah, oh yeah. And it's not true 100 % of the time, but 99.9 % of the time, people's voices are telling a little bit about their gifts. So the earth tells the story of being grounded and steady. And the fire tells the story about being passionate and visible. And the water tells the story of having a

Lian (34:06)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (34:19)

anything your heart has to say, being heart-based and loving and empathetic. And the metal voice is about clarity and sharpness and also getting loud without hurting your voice, just technically speaking. And the air is about the connection to spirit and the dream time and stories and possibilities. So all of them have their way and their time. And so I think just playing, I think your listeners can just play to say, I don't have one voice. I have many. And if the one I'm using doesn't work, I might be able to shift to something else.

Lian (34:43)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Yeah, I think the, I mean again, the elements are so in our blood and bones. These aren't things that are a modern concept or something you've come up with. We all have that innate resonance when you're talking about these, everyone's going to listen and go, yes, I've not applied them to voice before, probably, but I can hear what you mean and we can listen to our own voice from that perspective. It makes complete sense. So going back to what I was saying, how I think this could be the first episode we've ever done around voice, which strikes me as odd.

And that suggests that culturally we're missing there being something really significant about voice. Why is this something we don't all know? Why is this something we're not ironically all talking about?

Barbara McAfee (36:03)

I know. Well, when I tell people what I do, they say, oh, are you a singing teacher? And I'm like, what are we doing right now? We are actually singing. I know. And I have a background in, I did 12 years. It sounds like I served a sentence. It was not that hard. was a...

Lian (36:09)

You're the only frame we've got, yeah!

Barbara McAfee (36:24)

organizational consultant for 12 years, doing team building, conflict resolution, leadership training, things like that. And I was doing my work on my voice over here. You know, I am a singer, and I love to sing and write music, and I've made a lot of recordings and all of that. So I was developing my voice over here, and then I was doing this work, you know, in the business world, in the work world, and I thought they

Lian (36:50)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (36:54)

separate and one of my colleagues came to me and said, you work with this client of ours? Because she had that voice, know, a woman of incredible gifts and intelligence and it really didn't matter because it was horrible to be listening to her. And I thought, and so I did work with her and we did make some progress, but I got very

Lian (37:15)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (37:24)

inspired because of what other gifts are not getting into this world because people are locked in some sort of vocal habit that is not serving them. And I do not know why we don't pay attention to this. This is why I've written two books and I've trained all these people and I am doing all these podcasts because it does feel like it is such a critical part of every aspect of our lives.

Lian (37:49)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (37:51)

You know, my grandfather has been dead for decades, but I can still hear his voice in my mind.

Lian (37:57)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (37:59)

the sound of our voice can be a blessing or a curse to the people around us. And have everything to do with whether our gifts get into this world before we die. I've done a lot of work around death and dying as well. We had a lot of people die in my life and a lot of them did a really beautiful job of it. And we sang our way through a lot of it.

What are the great lessons of being present to death and dying to that threshold is how much our, did we express what we came here to express while we were here? Did we tell the people we love them? Did we bring our gifts into fruition? Did we sing our song metaphorically and literally?

Lian (38:38)

Mmm.

Yeah. Gosh, there's so many other places I want to, for us to go and I know that we're almost up on time. So I'm just needing to choose which of these areas I want to explore with you before we do. what occurs to me on some episodes, I kind of offer myself up as a guinea pig.

and there's been a couple of episodes recently I've done with a dream therapist where we've kind of looked at one of my dreams as an example with the idea that is illuminating for listeners.

I'm wondering whether we could do something really quickly with me and my voice here. I have no idea what we might expose and whether I'm going to regret this but if you're game for it I am.

Barbara McAfee (39:42)

you Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'm wondering, based on the earth, fire, water, metal, and air, do you have a sense of where you might land in there? What, maybe, two voices feel most aligned with who you might think you are?

Lian (40:08)

I felt that when you gave the examples I could hear in them.

The fire and our water, interestingly they're opposites and maybe a bit of earth, maybe less. It's interesting because I feel like my mind can be quite metal but I don't feel my expression is particularly and likewise with air, it feels like my being is quite airy but I don't necessarily know my voice is.

Barbara McAfee (40:46)

Interesting, very interesting. I do not hear much earth. I don't hear a lot of basement in your voice. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, we're just jumping in. You just heard this 10 minutes ago.

Lian (40:50)

Hmm.

No, that's probably true. Maybe my relationship to Earth is different to how you're describing it here.

Barbara McAfee (41:09)

What I hear, what I hear, and let me just say the question is way more interesting than the answer. The I wonder. What am I hearing? I wonder.

Lian (41:21)

Mm.

Barbara McAfee (41:25)

I do hear a lot of water, which makes a lot of sense. does, you know, as a person who's concerned with healing So I hear a lot of water. I do hear a little, a little like teaspoon of metal. And I think that has to do with your accent. There's a resonance in your voice.

Lian (41:45)

Metal teaspoon.

Barbara McAfee (41:47)

Yeah, it's not a lot. You're not a character that... But I can hear... Your voice isn't just dull. There's a bit of a shine on it, right? Yeah, yeah. There's a resonance in it. And now and then, I get a little of the air.

Lian (41:54)

Hmm.

yes the clarity.

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (42:08)

You're not a breathy talker, which is probably great because you have a lot less listeners, presumably. Right? Right. If this is all you did, everybody get dizzy and go to sleep. So that's what I hear. And there's a little fire, too. You've got some energy behind, physical energy behind your voice, which I imagine.

Lian (42:13)

Mm.

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (42:36)

you can be heard in a room, right? Is that true? Can you be heard generally?

Lian (42:39)

Hmm.

Yes, what was just occurring to me is that...

I am partially deaf. I used to be more deaf than I am now and I had an operation where I'm now deaf in one ear and not in the other, which affects, apparently I'm told, the volume I speak because I struggle to... in fact my daughter was complaining to me the other day because apparently I was telling her to do something multiple times. She hadn't heard me and I was like, I don't understand how you could not have heard me. She said, I don't think you know often the volume you're speaking at because you can't hear everyone else.

And I was like, that's occurred to me as quite an interesting aspect of what we're talking about here, that I do seem to struggle with volume in terms of I don't know how I'm told a lot. I speak more quietly than I think I am. I often think I'm speaking quite loudly.

Barbara McAfee (43:39)

That's gold right there. That's very interesting. and what we're hearing in our heads is not what's coming out. And that's universal whether we're deaf in one ear or not. That's why people are so horrified when they hear themselves on a recording.

Lian (43:41)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (43:58)

a lot of times, and we're used to it because we do a lot of recordings, but almost universally people say, ugh, I just hate the sound of my voice on a recording because it is so different from what we hear in our heads. The way it's being conducted is completely different. Air is different than bone and tissue. you're probably an even bigger example of that just because of the...

Lian (44:18)

Mm.

Barbara McAfee (44:26)

the deafness in one ear. So I would invite you into fire, think, fire and earth as being the ones that are maybe less expressed for you. And to get a little, do you want to get a little with me for a minute?

Lian (44:37)

Mmm.

I just cleared my voice. I hope I don't set my dogs off barking because if I do strange sounds they'll get involved. So they may want to eat that I warn you now.

Barbara McAfee (44:50)

Yeah, the animals, yeah, the animals all go crazy with this. They always do. They either run or they come and jump on you and yeah. So, ugh. I have to say, I have been so surprised at like, I've done a lot of growing in my life. I've been on a project of learning my whole entire life. yep, I hear the dogs waking up.

Lian (45:24)

Yeah, they've all come over. It's okay.

Barbara McAfee (45:28)

But I've been amazed at how healing can be like really fun. It's also scary, but it can be like hilarious. It can be so fun to just be everything you're never supposed to be. I'm a big dummy. So actually laughing is a great way to do it too. It might make it easier for the dogs.

Lian (45:34)

Hmm.

Hahaha!You

I don't know if it will be, we'll try though.

Barbara McAfee (45:58)

Ha

Yeah. Yeah, you're breaking a lot of rules. You're breaking so many rules right now about how it is to be a nice lady. You're just being, ugh. And then the other, for fire, we could just laugh like fire too. And I'm going to back off my mic so I don't burn it all up. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Want to laugh loud?

Lian (46:14)

You

Yes.

You

My husband's going to be in the office about what on is going on?

Barbara McAfee (46:57)

my gosh. Yeah, so there's your homework. Laugh like a big dummy and laugh like an obnoxious person. I loved seeing this on you and I loved seeing your, just for your listeners, like turned like a wonderful color of pink.

Lian (47:12)

hahahahah

Barbara McAfee (47:16)

Yeah,so I love taking people through all five laughing. know, the, ha. Ha ha ha. Hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

Lian (47:21)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (47:27)

You know, you can do it in laughing in like a minute. But yeah. Exactly.

Lian (47:30)

Yeah, if you're gonna laugh anyway, you may as well use it. I think the reason I thought going to that, because I laugh a lot and easily. I was connecting that with fire and I just have a lot of energy and expression. So I think that's why I was thinking fire. So it's interesting that you weren't seeing that much in my voice.

Barbara McAfee (47:51)

Well, also, we're doing a podcast and you have a very sensitive mic right in front of your face. And this is a one-on-one conversation. And so you don't need a lot of fire to do what we're doing here. The context is more intimate.

Lian (47:59)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (48:10)

Right? And so there may be places where you are quite fiery. I'm kind of fiery. That's my dominant, if you haven't figured it out. And when I am doing my work, I'm generally in fire. And in teaching, in speaking, in presenting, I am mostly in fire. Because it serves that purpose, also it's a lot how I...

Lian (48:26)

Mmm.

Barbara McAfee (48:40)

how I roll when I am presenting my, it's the voice of the enthusiast. Yeah.

Lian (48:41)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Fascinating. So unfortunately we are over time now. Before we close, is there, I'm sure there's lots of things, but is there anything in particular that you feel we should cover in closing that we haven't touched upon?

Barbara McAfee (49:07)

gosh, I think we just need to do this again. But I would leave a little phrase with your listeners. You have a choice about your voice. And I would also leave them all, leave you all, with the question, what is my story about my voice? And that, I often start my work with people with that question.

Lian (49:09)

I think we did. Yes.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Barbara McAfee (49:37)

And to just do some writing reflection, take that question for a walk, bring it to a dinner with a friend. What is your story about your voice? And it's amazing what's all in there. Because as we touched on, there's not a lot of attention paid to this thing that is so connected to our humanity and our...

Lian (49:49)

yes.

Barbara McAfee (50:01)

physical, mental, spiritual health, our relationships, our work, our gifts, our soul, everything. So those are two little treats I would offer.

Lian (50:13)

Yeah, I love both. In fact, I'm thinking I may well take that invitation to explore the story of my voice. I can feel how rich that is. Thank you so much. And where can listeners find out more about you and the wonderful work you do?

Barbara McAfee (50:29)

Well, the easiest place to connect with all the options, all the things I do, is my website, barbarmcafee.com. There's a lot of classes there. I teach online and I've got a class coming up towards the end of March that will be friendly to your listeners in the UK. It's the evening hours and it's full voice fundamentals where we go into the five elements over five 90 minute sessions and play a lot with them. There's two TED Talks on there, there's a bunch of music videos, all of that kind of thing. So that's the that's the kind of portal into all what I'm doing in this world. So and I would love to hear from your listeners. I really enjoy people's questions or reflections so there's another way there's a way for people to connect with me there as well.

Lian (51:23)

Gorgeous.

This has been such a treat. I love everything, everywhere we've been and I'm very much looking forward to our part two, which we definitely will do.

Thank you so much, Barbara.

Barbara McAfee (51:36)

Thank you, Lian

Lian (51:37)

What a truly fascinating episode. As you could probably tell, I absolutely loved that. Here are my favourite parts. Suppressed aspects of self often show up as missing range, pitch or volume in the voice, revealing where adaptation replaced authenticity. Landscape, culture, gender and family systems subtly train which vocal qualities feel acceptable, shaping not only our communication, but our identity itself. When voice is treated as a set of movable elements rather than a fixed identity, new range becomes available, restoring authority, emotional truth, and fuller self-expression, soul expression, one might say. If you'd like to hop on over to the show notes for the links, they're at bemythical.com slash podcast slash five three seven.

And as you heard me say earlier, if you're struggling with the challenges of walking your soul path in this crazy modern world and long for guidance, kinship and support, come join us in Unio, the community for soul seekers. You can discover more and join us by hopping over to BeMythical.com/unio now let's walk the path home together.

And if you're called to go even deeper on your wild sovereign soul path, join us for the upcoming wild sovereign soul course, a three month immersive and mystery journey into becoming a wild sovereign soul. Register your interest at BeMythical.com/wss And if you don't want to miss out on next week's episode and we have got some absolute gems coming up. Then do head on over to your podcasting app or platform of choice, including YouTube and hit that subscribe or follow button. That way you'll get each episode delivered straight to your device, auto magically as soon as it's released. Thank you so much for listening. You've been wonderful. I'll catch you again next week. Until then, I'm sending you all of my love and blessings as you walk your wild sovereign soul path.

 
 
Lian Brook-Tyler
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